Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) 2 25 minutes ago, Consept said: 15 minutes ago, Consept said: well take trump and any 'identity' out of the equation, would you say building a wall to separate countries is an identity that would lead toward unity of people? Physically, walls separate people. And a wall would not be the reason I would vote for Trump. The reason I would vote for him is the democratic party. However, controlling the influx of people coming illegally into a country, is a fair argument. The end goal should be unification but you cant just open all the border all the time without regulation and expect something productive to come out of that. Its not really a solution if everyone just flees to richer countries, solution have to be found at the places where people are fleeing from. Edited July 7, 2020 by Robi Steel I know you're tired but come. This is the way - Rumi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 7, 2020 @Robi Steel *meant to say think not identity Yes of course immigration is a complexd issue and isn't just about throwing the doors open. My question was more whether you think a wall is the best solution to this complex issue. So what Trump policies specifically are you in favour of? My theory is that he caters to a particular demographic and isn't too bothered about the rest of the people because he can get enough votes from the group he wants them from, I maybe wrong but that's the sense I get. So someone who's into spirituality it would be interesting to know what policies you champion from Trump If you liked whatever i said in this post, check out my youtube channel for actual me talking Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) @Consept Relationship with China, Russia, North Korea, surely. (especially trade) Less involvement in foreign affairs (he didnt quite deliver, but still, anything but Hillary in that regard) Not abolishing ICE, Not abolishing police Small government Protecting statues, standing against looting, political violence Guarantee of free speech and free thought (especially on the internet) I think America has enough military and should consider its spending. But I feel theres nothing wrong with having a presentable military and making that part of the country. I dont agree with him on: Health care Abortion Guns rights (maybe) Focusing on economic growth Probably some more stuff. The important thing to note is that main reason I vote Trump is because of the progressive left and what they have become. They are untrustworthy people Edited July 7, 2020 by Robi Steel I know you're tired but come. This is the way - Rumi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Robi Steel said: Relationship with China, Russia, North Korea, surely. (especially trade) slowly giving up partnership with europe, and by the way has a trade war going with china... stops paying into international projects like WHO because its supposedly corrupted and making therefore space for more corruption? this? - the list is endless if you work yourself through the effects of his politics. its actually not even for your own benefits except that it really helps with scapegoating trump for everything even for putin’s politics. Edited July 7, 2020 by remember Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 7, 2020 4 hours ago, Robi Steel said: Im gonna come back to this thread in 20 years and then were gonna see who was right I'll give you 3 years. If not that, then 80 Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Robi Steel said: The important thing to note is that main reason I vote Trump is because of the progressive left and what they have become. They are untrustworthy people So if this is your main reason, it would suggest to me that youre not too concerned about the policies and its more you dont like what the left has become or that theyre untrustworthy. It may also be fair to say that looking at what you disagree with Trump on, you probably support as many left policies and ideas as you do right ideas. Im sure if we actually laid all the policies out youd agree with more left ones than right, in fact most of what you agree with are not even policies. So my question would be if we're taking policy out, why would Trump be more trustworthy than people on the left? There are numerous examples and accounts of him not being trustworthy through the years, even prior to his election, its at the very least comparable to people on the left. Then even if he is trustworthy, you disagree with a lot of what says, which means if you believe him to be trustworthy you would vote knowing that things you disagree with and know are bad for majority of people, will be enacted. Healthcare for example, if he is trustworthy he dismantles health care so if that is something you feel strongly about and being from Germany you can recognise how important it is, then how can you back someone trustworthy or not, that is dismantling something like the healthcare system? Edited July 7, 2020 by Consept If you liked whatever i said in this post, check out my youtube channel for actual me talking Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 7, 2020 I saw some arrogant scientists online, so I became anti-science. I went to a concert and some people were rude, so I became anti-music. I went to a football game and a drunken brawl broke out, so I became anti-sports. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Consept said: There are numerous examples and accounts of him not being trustworthy through the years, even prior to his election, its at the very least comparable to people on the left. Thats true, however I have seen many many more examples of left wing politicians and left wing media being blatantly dishonest. Not even just having bias but knowingly lying and smearing to take someone down personally. Accusing people of horrible things that they havent done. Maybe its equally bad, that would align with my worldview, I can give you that. 1 hour ago, Consept said: Healthcare for example, if he is trustworthy he dismantles health care so if that is something you feel strongly about and being from Germany you can recognise how important it is, Well he cant dismantle anything that isnt really there in the first place. The reason healthcare works in our country is because we believe in each other and were way more homogeneous than the USA. The United States is already crumbling economically, a free healthcare system could be the nail in the coffin for that system to ever recover. 1 hour ago, Forestluv said: I saw some arrogant scientists online, so I became anti-science. I went to a concert and some people were rude, so I became anti-music. I went to a football game and a drunken brawl broke out, so I became anti-sports. That would assume that I looked at the progressive left once and judged them by their worst example, thats not the case at all. I was the progressive left for the majority of my life and I slowly distanced myself from them over the years because I saw countless examples of EGO. Big fat ego, arrogance, self-righteousness, absolutism, group think, violence, smearing, us vs. them, intimidation and so forth. Edited July 7, 2020 by Robi Steel I know you're tired but come. This is the way - Rumi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, Robi Steel said: Accusing people of horrible things that they havent done. Maybe its equally bad, that would align with my worldview, I can give you that. 8 minutes ago, Robi Steel said: Big fat ego, arrogance, self-righteousness, absolutism, group think, violence, smearing, us vs. them, intimidation and so forth. I still dont know how this is a good argument if it boils dow to the left just having negative traits. Ive witnessed many groups and many of these things are basically inherent in any group you can think of, potentially the left has gotten more power recently which maybe makes it seem like its more blatant but its definitely not unique to them. For example you could very easily make cases against feminism, against mgtow, by using examples of them doing the things youve mentioned but that doesnt mean that the points they have arent valid it just means some of their number, usually a loud minority, are not evolved enough yet. So if you do agree with left policies but not with the people attempting to implement them, i would think a sensible position would be to push for those that you like, for example if you like Bernie Sanders, or just dont subscribe to any leaning and just a la carte choose the points on either side that you agree with. Personally it doenst make sense to me to support someone mainly because you dislike the other side, especially if you agree with the other side. Its like saying you support Dortmund because you hate Bayern even if you dont particularly like how Dortmund play If you liked whatever i said in this post, check out my youtube channel for actual me talking Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 7, 2020 All the companies supporting BLM are economically far right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 7, 2020 45 minutes ago, Robi Steel said: That would assume that I looked at the progressive left once and judged them by their worst example, thats not the case at all. I was the progressive left for the majority of my life and I slowly distanced myself from them over the years because I saw countless examples of EGO. Big fat ego, arrogance, self-righteousness, absolutism, group think, violence, smearing, us vs. them, intimidation and so forth. I was once into science, then I saw scientists as having big egos - so I became anti-science and now believe the earth is flat. I once loved music, then I saw musicians as having big egos - so I became anti-music and now believe music is the devil’s brew. I was once a sports fan, then I saw sports fans as having big egos - so I became anti-sports and now believe exercise is unhealthy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, Forestluv said: I was once a scientist, then I saw scientists as having big egos - so I became anti-science. I was once a musician, then I saw musicians as having big egos - so I became anti-music. I was once an athlete, then I saw athletes as having big egos - so I became anti-sports. I was once a conservative, then I saw conservatives as having big egos - so I became anti-conservative. "Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one." - Bruce Lee Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 7, 2020 28 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said: I was once a conservative, then I saw conservatives as having big egos - so I became anti-conservative. I updated the post to make it more obvious. Observe the distinction between principles and personalities. A = B does not mean that C = D. If people (A) who believe the theory of planetary motion (C) are arrogant jackasses (B), it doesn’t mean that the theory of planetary motion is incorrect (D). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Robi Steel said: @Consept Relationship with China, Russia, North Korea, surely. (especially trade) Less involvement in foreign affairs (he didnt quite deliver, but still, anything but Hillary in that regard) Not abolishing ICE, Not abolishing police Small government Protecting statues, standing against looting, political violence Guarantee of free speech and free thought (especially on the internet) I think America has enough military and should consider its spending. But I feel theres nothing wrong with having a presentable military and making that part of the country. I dont agree with him on: Health care Abortion Guns rights (maybe) Focusing on economic growth Probably some more stuff. The important thing to note is that main reason I vote Trump is because of the progressive left and what they have become. They are untrustworthy people . Quote Small government Is there evidence of this since he was elected? that he made the government smaller? Quote The important thing to note is that main reason I vote Trump is because of the progressive left and what they have become. He's running against Biden who is far from progressive left These are Joe Bidens positions from his website: https://joebiden.com/joes-vision/ __________________________________________________________ And Trump's: https://www.promiseskept.com/# . . Edited July 7, 2020 by Nak Khid Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 7, 2020 1 hour ago, tenta said: All the companies supporting BLM are economically far right. Please indulge me and expand on this term economically far right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 8, 2020 I mean, now that I look around the forum I am starting to get your point. It's not really a "discussion" if only some particular point of views are discussed and taken seriously. To the right wing's credit, I do find their positions to be very understandable. I think it's understandable for citizens of a country to want lower immigration when the demographics are changing so fast. It's not that they are necessarily racists, it's that the culture and the atmosphere around where they live has changed so much in such a short span of time. Any country will have a similar or a bigger reaction if people who speak different languages and look different immigrate there in large numbers. It's understandable for people to want to stop illegal immigration. It's understandable for people to get annoyed with excessive virtue signalling when we are probably living in the least racist time in history, they probably think these things will auto-correct over time. Overall I don't think there is that big of a difference between the Left and the Right, the media is definitely sensationalizing it for views, and that's why USA gets presidents like Trump. I don't like Trump and his administration though, I think they are incompetent idiots pandering to racists. Conservatives deserve a better leadership. I find Canadian conservatives are way more civil. Although I am a progressive, I think most conservatives are normal people who happen to have a more pragmatic and cautious view of things. The US states are divided pretty clearly into red and blue, so the two parties can enact their respective policies in their states without much conflict with each other. If you think about it, the difference between the two is that they disagree on some social policies and some boring economic policies, that's it, nothing to get emotional or worked up about. I was taught to deal with situations as they currently are, if they change then that's great, if not then that's okay too; I don't expect the government or society to change any time soon, it's better to focus on the truly important things in life. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) On 6.7.2020 at 6:34 AM, Kailash Bhattarai said: @Robi Steel You told that you are from germany. So you already live in stage green society. I believe Germany already has free health care at the point of service, free college/education, comparitively strong social safety nets, and comparatively high wages with low income inequality etc. So your major problems seems to be unchecked immigration. Which is the excess of stage green society. Whereas American society doesn't free health care, living wage and free college. You might have taken left wing ideology for granted as you are already living in stage green society. So, now you are reacting against stage green (left-wing) ideologies. That's why you prefer trump. Where as Americans don't have these So, they support left wing progressives who are fighting for medicare for all, free college, fair wages etc. Bottom line is you are reacting against excess of stage green and progressives are reacting against excess of stage orange. This is a very good point, one of the first sane points I've seen made against Trump, that makes me as a german understand americans more closely, thank you. Even though it makes me understand americans in that regard more, of course with the Trump elections there is much more on the line then just what happens in the USA, this is the most important election worldwide, with that said people who already got that system many americans are fighting for are telling you right here and now that Trump is the way to go, if you think germany is that great right now, you would be surprised what this systems impact on the germans psyche is. The amount of people seeking out help is unprecedented, spirituality is of course on a rise as well, yoga and meditation is becoming rather popular, which is a great thing, but do we really need everyone to have mental issues in order to achieve that? Edited July 8, 2020 by LaucherJunge Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 8, 2020 On 5.7.2020 at 9:22 PM, Billy Shears said: @Robi Steel, I guess you are the first person in Germany who has taken psychedelics but still votes for AFD. Somehow this doesn't fit together. But maybe I am just biased. Yes, you are biased. This is very far from the truth. If you are talking about people going to raves just partying on psychedelics you have a point though. I'm actually not voting at all anymore, but if I had to it would have to be the AfD, because all the other parties are literally trash tier. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 14, 2020 (edited) @Robi Steel If a person discusses political and U.S. presidential affairs outside the context that they are red herrings -- and especially if they have criticisms reserved for any U.S. president, i.e. taking U.S. presidencies seriously -- they most often know nothing about it. There are few exceptions for those who work directly in politics and economics, generally, as it is their work. One can be brilliant and have not a single idea what's really going on. You'd need years of personal, free time, isolation and many concentrated hours of research required to find out, and you wouldn't want to anyways. You'll wish you just lived your life and pursued your unique desires. What awaits finding out is dread, but if you can get past that, God is there. All that said, it won't be easy to find politically 'awakened' individuals anywhere, including this forum, because to be 'awake' or adept politically is still residing in the same carousel of red herrings. The difference is in seeing the red herrings, past them, and then into the evil that sets them. It's only then that you can truly distinguish the good from the bad in our infrastructure surrounding politics, where we're going as a society, our affairs on the way there, and not have to guess at it. Edited July 14, 2020 by P Moore Removed 1 'and'; punctuated; ease of reading Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 14, 2020 @P Moore This must be one of the most brilliant replies regarding politics in this whole forum. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
