Im voting Trump in November and why I left this forum

[Carl-Richard]

5 hours ago, Robi Steel said:

Well tell me, who are the mayors and governors that are letting primal survival instincts run wild in the cities (mob mentality, group think, attacking boogieman)? At the moment it seems that democrats want to deregulate law and order because they have such an overreaction to blue that they would rather go back to red than letting police exist (which is weird). 

Be careful not to conflate the mob with the people in power. Most progressives in power aren't anti-government.

[Sockrattes]

2 hours ago, Robi Steel said:

@BratcatYou make a good point and I will consider it. I dont think however germany is the ideal society, germany may very well be the on the decline and weak. This is why I think that german culture wont be the dominant culture for much longer

There is no "german-culture". There never was.

For most of history "Germany" was patchwork of (at it's peak) dozens of countries which loved to fight each other. What is "german culture" supposed to be?

Democracy and basic human rights? That's american (for the most part).

Capitalism? That's british.

Pretzels? It's austrian.

The german language? Quote: "someone from the rhineland can not even ask for directions in bavaria".

[Rilles]

3 minutes ago, Sockrattes said:

There is no "german-culture". There never was.

For most of history "Germany" was patchwork of (at it's peak) dozens of countries which loved to fight each other. What is "german culture" supposed to be?

Democracy and basic human rights? That's american (for the most part).

Capitalism? That's british.

Pretzels? It's austrian.

The german language? Quote: "someone from the rhineland can not even ask for directions in bavaria".

but muh nationalism!!!!?

[Robi Steel]

@Sockrattes Yes german culture is arbitrary, just like EVERY OTHER culture that exists. Its a relative phenomenon that has no clear boundaries. In the absolute sense, you are right, in the relative sense, you are wrong. There is a clear pattern,  a set of axiums that defines german culture, german culture is the summation of all german peoples behavior, and this behavior has certain tendencies which defines that country. Without this arbitrary construction, the country would simply disintegrate and collapse and/or become something else. 

People need some form of boundaries and limits to orient themselves and know where they are. You can deconstruct everything and you wont be wrong, but it wont help anyone, it will just create more chaos and destroy the possibility to even exist. 

A state is the best form of unity on a large scale that we have right now, attempts to actively tear down those structures will only result in more division. Everything has its time, and deconstructing the concept of culture will not work with 90% of people. Even in a global superstate, people should have close connections to the place where they grew up in and their local history, otherwise they will have a crisis of identity

[Jacob Morres]

5 hours ago, Robi Steel said:

soviet union was green

USSR was red/blue.

Modern day nordic countries are green (this is the socialism that people are asking/referring to) 

It may be helpful to recognize and learn the distinctions between between the development of people and government of these two countries 

Green would never want 60 million dead. Green would want world peace✌ ☮ 

Your ideology is stuck in blue, this is an objective fact not judgement

Edited July 5, 2020 by Jacob Morres

[Sockrattes]

2 minutes ago, Robi Steel said:

@Sockrattes Yes german culture is arbitrary, just like EVERY OTHER culture that exists. Its a relative phenomenon that has no clear boundaries. In the absolute sense, you are right, in the relative sense, you are wrong. There is a clear pattern,  a set of axiums that defines german culture, german culture is the summation of all german peoples behavior, and this behavior has certain tendencies which defines that country. Without this arbitrary construction, the country would simply disintegrate and collapse and/or become something else. 

People need some form of boundaries and limits to orient themselves and know where they are. You can deconstruct everything and you wont be wrong, but it wont help anyone, it will just create more chaos and destroy the possibility to even exist. 

A state is the best form of unity on a large scale that we have right now, attempts to actively tear down those structures will only result in more division. Everything has its time, and deconstructing the concept of culture will not work with 90% of people. Even in a global superstate, people should have close connections to the place where they grew up in and their local history, otherwise they will have a crisis of identity

At the height of the immigration-crisis in Germany, the biggest political party opposing that, was the AfD, and they were polling at like roughly 20% or something. According to your comment german-culture would be therefore "being very welcoming and being very open-minded" isn't it?

 

The last part of your comment is very revealing. It sounds like you are longing for affiliation and identity and you are somehow disappointed, that Germany won't provide you with that.

That begs the question: Even if there would be a nation that would fulfil all your desires, would you be happy?

Probably not.

That's actually the whole point of spirituality. As the Buddha said:

"Now this, bhikkhus, is the noble truth of suffering: birth is suffering, aging is suffering, illness is suffering, death is suffering; union with what is displeasing is suffering; separation from what is pleasing is suffering; not to get what one wants is suffering; in brief, the five aggregates subject to clinging are suffering."

[Onemanwolfpac]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

Be careful not to conflate the mob with the people in power. Most progressives in power aren't anti-government.

I saw the mayor complaining about the mob showing up and her poor children. Lol peaceful mob is peaceful until it shows up. 

 

17 minutes ago, Jacob Morres said:

USSR was red/blue.

Modern day nordic countries are green (this is the socialism that people are asking/referring to) 

It may be helpful to recognize and learn the distinctions between between the development of people and government of these two countries 

Green would never want 60 million dead. Green would want world peace✌ ☮ 

Your ideology is stuck in blue, this is an objective fact not judgement

Did you ever read the gulag archipelago? Vol1-3? There was nothing green about it. 

[Robi Steel]

14 minutes ago, Jacob Morres said:

Your ideology is stuck in blue, this is an objective fact not judgement

Just because you say that doesnt mean, its not just your subjective judgement about me. 

15 minutes ago, Jacob Morres said:

Modern day nordic countries are green (this is the socialism that people are asking/referring to) 

Those countries are not socialist, they are not socialist democracies, they are not democratic socialism, they are a free market society with socialist regulations. 

17 minutes ago, Jacob Morres said:

Green would never want 60 million dead. Green would want world peace✌ ☮

I can assure you that socialist countries of the past did not want 60 million dead either, they are deeply ashamed of their history and try mask it and distort it. But still, it happened. 

8 minutes ago, Sockrattes said:

The last part of your comment is very revealing. It sounds like you are longing for affiliation and identity and you are somehow disappointed, that Germany won't provide you with that.

I personally define my identity by nothingness and non-existence. Im saying that *regular* people would go insane without clear structures. Maybe they will be ready one day to adopt a global identity but at the moment this is not helpful. 

[Jacob Morres]

23 minutes ago, Robi Steel said:

Just because you say that doesnt mean, its not just your subjective judgement about me. 

Then which stage would you say your politics is on? 

Spiraldynamicsintegral.nl

Edited July 5, 2020 by Jacob Morres

[Jacob Morres]

26 minutes ago, Robi Steel said:

Those countries are not socialist, they are not socialist democracies, they are not democratic socialism, they are a free market society with socialist regulations. 

Yeah exactly and this is what the average liberal is fight for. Nordic policies, not Stalin era

Healthcare for all people will not take us to a Stalin era 

You brought the USSR as an example of green but it means you don't have a strong understanding of green 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Jacob Morres

[Robi Steel]

3 minutes ago, Jacob Morres said:

Then which stage would you say your politics is on? 

Well heres one possibility: oftentimes beliefs from a stage above you, sound like from a stage below you

Another possibility is that Im wrong and that these beliefs are sentiments from earlier stages. When Leo disagrees with you, theres a good possibility. But its also not like I havent thought through what im saying here.

12 minutes ago, Jacob Morres said:

Free Healthcare will not take us to a Stalin era

Tearing down statues, getting people fired, censoring public discourse might

[TrustTheProcess]

this is what it feels like trying to explain stage green to stage blue/orange

[Robi Steel]

 

[Sockrattes]

1 hour ago, Robi Steel said:

I personally define my identity by nothingness and non-existence. Im saying that *regular* people would go insane without clear structures. Maybe they will be ready one day to adopt a global identity but at the moment this is not helpful. 

This nothingness, that doesn't exist, has somehow strong political opinions. 

Funny thing is, that i've already proven, that Germany didn't go insane, when roughly 1,5 mio. people from the middle east went there.

Isn't it possible, that you are just projecting your own insecurities onto others?

I know, it's not your fault. You are just a kid. But why do you think, other people are more mundane than you are?

[Robi Steel]

@Amandine Shaming me actually reinforces some of the assertions that I made here. Plz dont do that

5 minutes ago, Sockrattes said:

This nothingness, that doesn't exist, has somehow strong political opinions.

Well yes, nothingness can do that, simple as that

 

6 minutes ago, Sockrattes said:

I know, it's not your fault. You are just a kid. But why do you think, other people are more mundane than you are?

Plz no ageism  

[Sockrattes]

6 minutes ago, Robi Steel said:

@Amandine Shaming me actually reinforces some of the assertions that I made here. Plz dont do that

Well yes, nothingness can do that, simple as that

 

Plz no ageism  

So you want to censor me?

 Just kidding

 

Genuinely curios:

Are you avoiding uncomfortable statements and questions strategically and on purpose, or do you think they have no value?

[Robi Steel]

Oh sry, I wasnt avoiding it intentionally. 

Thats a philosophical question. 

On the one hand, I dont feel superior to anyone, everyones experience is subjective and has value. Theres no better or worse experience in the absolute sense. 

On the other hand, if you know about spiritual enlightenment and do spiritual work, you are in a small, small minority. And most people arent ready yet for those stages of deconstruction, if ever. 

[Sockrattes]

@Robi Steel That's a mature answer, i will give you that.

The problem is, that i don't get, what exactly you were aiming at, when you opened this thread.

Do you think everyone should have their own opinion and everyone should be entitled to not getting their beliefs attacked?

[Nak Khid]

3 hours ago, Sockrattes said:

There is no "german-culture". There never was.

For most of history "Germany" was patchwork of (at it's peak) dozens of countries which loved to fight each other. What is "german culture" supposed to be?

Democracy and basic human rights? That's american (for the most part).

Capitalism? That's british.

Pretzels? It's austrian.

The german language? Quote: "someone from the rhineland can not even ask for directions in bavaria".

I don't see convincing evidence for the pretzel having been invented in Austria 

[Carl-Richard]

8 hours ago, Robi Steel said:

I get my inspiration from many places and I try to keep the voices as balanced as possible. I personally get alot of information from Carl Benjamin, Tim Pool, Fox news which are clearly biased against SJWs of course. But I get the counter-arguments almost daily without looking for them. I get them from my friends, social media, the news that google wants me to see, youtube entertainers who are mostly left-wing (penguinz0, Jreg, Gus Johnson, Cody Ko, Drew Gooden), mystics (sadghuru, Leo) and so forth. I watch intentionally alot of alternative media to balance out the mainstream opinions that Im seeing everyday. 

Do you see how this is a self-deception and defence mechanism for your worldview? What if you actively tried to seek out competent left-wing commentators on YouTube? I remember asking myself that question many years ago when I was firmly planted in stage orange, but I never went through with it, because it takes effort to willfully expose your own beliefs to thorough scrutiny, and it's easier to just stay within your own echo-chamber. You have the choice to take the slow route like I did or the fast route like I suggested here. I recommend the latter if you really want to evolve.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Carl-Richard