Im voting Trump in November and why I left this forum

[Epikur]

For balance something from the hero Chris Cuomo from CNN:
 

 

[Yog]

Yes, there is more tolerance for left pathology than for right wing pathology . You are right in that perception.

Lets say a biological essencialist point of view will be locked in a whim, but a social constructionist views are let to be explored regardless of how pathological they go. It is something that can bother me, but I'll live. There is a lot of good and wise people with big hearts around here.

There is shadow too, ofc mostly left leaning shadow.
Aren't we all work in progress.

I would love to see Leo deconstruct Progressivism just like he did Libertarianism.
That would help a lot. Its almost like a forced shadow work. Separating the wheat from the chaff.

[Bratcat]

58 minutes ago, Robi Steel said:

Yes of course I feel something negative when the place that I grew up (which I call "home") is radically changed, Im not Jesus.

I am from germany as well. I think this is a good example about how perspectives can differ.
I don't see any radical change since the refugee crisis in 2015. Maybe I see a couple more poc or women wearing headscarfs on the street (not a bad thing yet)
I sometimes see arab men acting threatingly. I sometimes see german men acting threatingly.
I sometimes see muslim women acting inconsiderate in public. I sometimes see german women acting inconsiderate in public.
You see where I'm going? Biases have a way of confirming themselves because you want them to.

However I see your point, I guess modern Islam is mostly rooted in stage blue values, and german society mostly in stage orange.
BUT
Even with this realization, how do we go from there? Don't let anyone into our precious german paradise bubble? Keep exploiting other countries and hoping everything will sort itself out sometime in the future? Wait until all the third world countries are so frustrated they'd rather turn to ISIS than a country focused on progress and human rights? Or just hope that most of them get killed off in some war or due to hunger?

Maybe welcoming muslims into our society isn't the fastest way to progress, but it sure as hell is the safest and the most humane.
Fatalistic theories aren't going to get us anywhere, if you think the german government is going to collapse under a couple million muslims, maybe we aren't so ideal after all.
Other cultures aren't immune to progress, you know that right? But how do you expect them to, if you shun them and put them in a hazardous environment where they have no option to choose progress, since they have to focus on survival? And by that I also mean segregating them from us while they are already in germany, not giving them the same chances, threatening them...

[Robi Steel]

28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You are loved no matter how ignorant you decide to be.

Same goes for you  

[Robi Steel]

@BratcatYou make a good point and I will consider it. I dont think however germany is the ideal society, germany may very well be the on the decline and weak. This is why I think that german culture wont be the dominant culture for much longer

[Epikur]

@Yog

Shadow work, taking care of blindspots has to be done:
 

 

 

[Epikur]

@Robi Steel

 What do you think of evolutional psychology?

[Robi Steel]

16 minutes ago, Yog said:

I would love to see Leo deconstruct Progressivism just like he did Libertarianism.
That would help a lot. Its almost like a forced shadow work. Separating the wheat from the chaff.

Yes, I would love this, some more balance plz

[Kailash Bhattarai]

https://www.actualized.org/insights/why-bernie-sanders-lost

 

He already has. He calls out progressive all the time. You can find them in his blog post.

Also his criticism of stage green is also one of them.

 

 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Kailash Bhattarai

[Robi Steel]

@Epikur Gives important insights about our biological nature

[Epikur]

9 minutes ago, Kailash Bhattarai said:

https://www.actualized.org/insights/why-bernie-sanders-lost

 

He already has. He calls out progressive all the time. 

 

 

That is not a good example.

He calls them out in the forum. He posted stuff I would have been banned for many times for it by his moderators I guess  

Edited July 5, 2020 by Epikur

[Epikur]

15 minutes ago, Robi Steel said:

@Epikur Gives important insights about our biological nature

You as a psychologist may have an idea:

The strong part of the progressives is that they are open for new things. Do you think of anything that looks promising for a better environment for people?

I am thinking about the rat experiment where the rat does not become drug addict if it has an interesting playground in the cage.

There was alot of hype with gamification. Maybe it may come slowly. Some apps are pretty nice already. What do you think of that?
 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Epikur

[remember]

25 minutes ago, Yog said:

biological essencialist

national darwinism - giving it a new name does not change its essence. if you want a patent on a new political perspective it must be technically different in sense of new invention, an old donkey is still a donkey even if you call it horse.

[Girzo]

2 hours ago, Robi Steel said:

Many of you guys argue from a completely linear spiral dynamics perspective, spiral dynamics is way too simple to categorize all the little political movements that we are experiencing right now. Just because the soviet union was green doesnt mean that 60million people dead was necessary to make that next step.

You cannot spew such nonsense and demand to be taken seriously. Explain to me why do you think Soviet Union was SD stage Green?

It was obviously a stage Red/Blue country, ruled by force, no tolerance for deviation from the official narrative, the God got replaced by a different Big Other, which was the industrial spirit of progress, there was centralized decision-making, the list could go on and on.

If you can't make a distinction between that and equality, diversity loving, democratic stage Green folks, then you should educate yorself on both of these.

[Kailash Bhattarai]

 

10 minutes ago, Epikur said:

That is not a good example.

He calls them out in the forum. He posted stuff I would have been banned formany times for it by his moderators I guess

Though he hadn't made specific video criticizing progressivism, he has criticized it in many videos, 

There are some criticism of progressive in this one. But there is a reason his criticism of progressive moment is less, because its way less toxic then

right-wing media, unchecked capitalism is the source of most evil in current date, epecially in America and Left-wing progressive Bernie Sanders like politician is 

what America needs right now.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Kailash Bhattarai

[Robi Steel]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

BTW, the European refugee immigration issue is a legitimate one. You can certainly make a valid point that a society can only integrate so many people from less developed countries. But this point needs to be made very carefully, based on science, not based on nationalism and ethnocentrism. If you want to limit the number of immigrants to a country, that's a legit discussion we could have. You will need to provide some studies/proof which shows that your country cannot accommodate more immigrants.

Agreed

[Epikur]

2 minutes ago, Kailash Bhattarai said:

 

Though he hadn't made specific video criticizing progressivism, he has criticized it in many videos, 

There are some criticism of progressive in this one. But there is a reason his criticism of progressive moment is less, because its way less toxic then

right-wing media, unchecked capitalism is the source of most evil in current date, epecially in America and Left-wing Bernie Sanders like politician is 

what America needs right now.

I think it is good that he doesn't go to extreme with that. It makes him vulnerable and become a target. That job can be easily made by some members in the forum.

[Robi Steel]

16 minutes ago, Girzo said:

If you can't make a distinction between that and equality, diversity loving, democratic stage Green folks, then you should educate yorself on both of these.

Those "democratic" stage green folks have huge problems with the democratic results of the 2016 election. They have made several attempts to impeach Trump which were more fueled by hate of the election results than actual evidence. 

Well you wanna know some of the platitudes of the soviet union? "Social justice", "Feminism", "Workers rights". And when western intellectuals came over, they said it was the "future". 

Some of those people that advocate for equality also support anti-democratic measures to impose their beliefs nowadays. I dont think its that far fetched. You do have a point however, but Im pretty sure I have a point too. I actually did alot of research on communist china and russia

Edited July 5, 2020 by Robi Steel

[remember]

@Robi Steel if a democracy was no democracy but called democracy, would you still call it democracy? the definition of what anything is, is not measured by what it claims to be but if it is comparable to what it claims to be. you can’t call it shoe if it is wearable on the head - i mean you can but it would not actually be a shoe. although if you would call it shoe and wear it like a shoe it would make you look funny. that’s a phenomenon.

Edited July 5, 2020 by remember

[Girzo]

2 hours ago, Robi Steel said:

Well you wanna know some of the platitudes of the soviet union? "Social justice", "Feminism", "Workers rights". And when western intellectuals came over, they said it was the "future". 

Yeah, but those were actually mostly stage Blue inventions, like old-school workers unions. That's why they started to disappear when stage Orange came to power and are heavily criticized by the economists from 1930-1960. What is proposed nowadays shares the name but comes from a different standpoint. And it shares the names because both stage Blue and Green are collectivistic.

In our stage Orange-dominated society collectivism is the future, just not the ultimate future, but a future for now.

BTW, the topics of social justice, feminism, etc, have started to gain traction long before the Soviet Union was created, they were alive in the USA and Europe for at least a hundred years by then. You associate them with the Soviet Union, because they lagged behind and adopted it way later. And looking at the state of Russia today one can assume it has been a rather shallow implementation.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Girzo