Seeking Enlightenment In Western Culture

[CaptainPineapple]

Hello there!

I am really interested in finding permanent inner peace, eternal happiness or basically getting enlightened. So a few months ago I started a meditation habit and currently I meditate at least for 20 minutes per day. I know that it will be a long way but as far as I've seen living in western culture it is really hard to reach enlightenment because there are so many distractions that keep you away from focusing inwards. My question is, is it easier to get enlightened if you live in a eastern culture like for example India, Thailand or Nepal? Or would you say that it doesn't make a difference?

 

[vizual]

No difference. It's all about your intention, if your intention for enlightenment is pure, the circumstances do not matter. 

It's very attractive for people seeking enlightenment to put these Indian, Thai cultures on a pedestal because they seem  more "spiritual" to us Westerners. But at the end of the day, it's all a smokescreen. There are just as many "obstacles"(or whatever you want to call it) in Eastern cultures as in Western cultures for reaching enlightenment. Even if you convince yourself that moving to India would benefit your proces of becoming enlightened, all your crap you have here will travel along with you to India.

[Prabhaker]

@CaptainPineapple Only when a society becomes affluent does religion become meaningful. And now, for the first time, a greater part of the world is not poor. To be religious, or to be interested in the ultimate questions of life, one needs to have really fulfilled all the lower wants and needs. A poor society cannot be religious. India was religious only when it was at a peak of affluence. For example, in Buddha’s time India was just like America is today. In those days India was the richest land. The religion that we have in India today is just a leftover from those days.

There is a basic difference between a poor man’s religion and a rich man’s religion. If a poor man becomes interested in religion it will be just as a substitute. Even if he prays to God he will be praying for economic goods; the basic problem of man will not yet have arisen for him.

The moment a society becomes rich, new problems arise. These problems are not concerned with physical bodies and physical needs; they are more psychological.

If a poor man wants to become meditative, he will need tremendous intelligence –  because he will have to see the futility of money which he does not have.

[Dodo]

17 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

@CaptainPineapple Only when a society becomes affluent does religion become meaningful. And now, for the first time, a greater part of the world is not poor. To be religious, or to be interested in the ultimate questions of life, one needs to have really fulfilled all the lower wants and needs. A poor society cannot be religious. India was religious only when it was at a peak of affluence. For example, in Buddha’s time India was just like America is today. In those days India was the richest land. The religion that we have in India today is just a leftover from those days.

There is a basic difference between a poor man’s religion and a rich man’s religion. If a poor man becomes interested in religion it will be just as a substitute. Even if he prays to God he will be praying for economic goods; the basic problem of man will not yet have arisen for him.

The moment a society becomes rich, new problems arise. These problems are not concerned with physical bodies and physical needs; they are more psychological.

If a poor man wants to become meditative, he will need tremendous intelligence –  because he will have to see the futility of money which he does not have.

Money is not futile, because without it you cant feed youself and retain your energy. Unless you cultivate your own food, which can be a hard and lengthy process, and its hard to do it on your own. 

Money is futile in a different system. In the current one its not. Anything else is delusional and usually comes from people who either never steuggled for basic survival, or forgot what it was like.

[Prabhaker]

6 minutes ago, Dodoster said:

Money is not futile, because without it you cant feed youself and retain your energy.

Money should not become the goal, but I am not saying at the same time that you should renounce it and become beggars. A poor man needs food, clothes, house first. He doesn't experience the problems which a rich person experiences, which can't be solved by any amount of money.

[Dodo]

1 minute ago, Prabhaker said:

Money should not become the goal, but I am not saying at the same time that you should renounce it and become beggars. A poor man needs food, clothes, house first. He doesn't experience the problems which a rich person experiences, which can't be solved by any amount of money.

Arent those the problems they make themselves, just because they can never have enough? Its too simple and i dont get, really, what all that is about. Its people being babies. Sustaining life is enough.. If you cant be happy if you are rich, you are simply a waste, because you're holding the resources for someone less vile, who can appreciate what he has. Maybe not with bare minimum,  but if you are set for life, you better be happy 

[Dodo]

It becomes 100 times easier to accept what happens and live in bliss if you have resources. Eckhart Tolle teachea big babies like that to accept that someone broke up with him, while some homeless has to accept that he wont eat and he will be dirty, malnourished and sick one more day. 

Oh no, poor me, i got dumped.Go have a shower and breathe. You playing the game in easy mode. The homeless on hard mode. Not only the homeless, all those people who live day by day, month by month, not knowing if they will meet both ends... This is hard mode. Not some mental issues of emptiness, not reaching your fullest potential or screwing less girls than your mates.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Dodoster

[Prabhaker]

8 minutes ago, Dodoster said:

Arent those the problems they make themselves, just because they can never have enough? Its too simple and i dont get, really, what all that is about. Its people being babies. Sustaining life is enough.. If you cant be happy if you are rich, you are simply a waste, because you're holding the resources for someone less vile, who can appreciate what he has. Maybe not with bare minimum,  but if you are set for life, you better be happy 

People think they will be happy when they have more money. Money has nothing to do with happiness. If you are happy and you have money, you can use it for happiness.

If you are unhappy and you have money, you will use that money for more unhappiness. Because money is simply a neutral force.

Needs can be fulfilled, but desires cannot be. Desire is a need gone mad. The materialist believes that his misery will disappear through the fulfillment of his desires. Remember, needs are always here and now — they are existential. And desires are never here and now — they are non-existential. They are just mental, in the mind. And they cannot be fulfilled because their very nature is to move into the future.

The distance between you and your desire always remains the same. How can you fulfill it? If you desire ten thousand rupees, you may get them some day. But by the time you get them, the desire will have gone ten thousand times ahead again.

You have one thousand rupees; the desire will ask for ten thousand. Now you have ten thousand; the desire will ask for one hundred thousand. The distance remains the same. You may have one hundred thousand — it makes no difference. Ten times again, the desire will remain the same.

[Dodo]

4 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

People think they will be happy when they have more money. Money has nothing to do with happiness. If you are happy and you have money, you can use it for happiness.

If you are unhappy and you have money, you will use that money for more unhappiness. Because money is simply a neutral force.

Needs can be fulfilled, but desires cannot be. Desire is a need gone mad. The materialist believes that his misery will disappear through the fulfillment of his desires. Remember, needs are always here and now — they are existential. And desires are never here and now — they are non-existential. They are just mental, in the mind. And they cannot be fulfilled because their very nature is to move into the future.

The distance between you and your desire always remains the same. How can you fulfill it? If you desire ten thousand rupees, you may get them some day. But by the time you get them, the desire will have gone ten thousand times ahead again.

You have one thousand rupees; the desire will ask for ten thousand. Now you have ten thousand; the desire will ask for one hundred thousand. The distance remains the same. You may have one hundred thousand — it makes no difference. Ten times again, the desire will remain the same.

Well that what you are explaining is greed, and its avoidable if you are a decent being. I mean the siffering. Its fine to want 100000000000 and go for it, but at least if you have 10000, you cam fking live. The rest becomes a game, easy to accept not reaching your new goal, because you already swimming in prosperity. 

Edited September 9, 2016 by Dodoster

[Prabhaker]

 

21 minutes ago, Dodoster said:

Arent those the problems they make themselves, just because they can never have enough?

2 minutes ago, Dodoster said:

Well that what you are explaining is greed, and its avoidable if you are a decent being.

You asked for it,so I explained greed ! 

[Dodo]

3 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

 

You asked for it,so I explained greed ! 

Didnt ask to explain greed, i just said they generate their own problems, because they are never satisfied. (with the security they have for example)

 

Edited September 9, 2016 by Dodoster

[Prabhaker]

Just now, Dodoster said:

i just said they generate their own problems, because they are never satisfied. 

That is greed,  they too are seeking contentment, but in wrong direction. 

[Neo]

 

Quote

The moment a society becomes rich, new problems arise. These problems are not concerned with physical bodies and physical needs; they are more psychological.

If a poor man wants to become meditative, he will need tremendous intelligence –  because he will have to see the futility of money which he does not have.

 

True, and yet the rich man has to be willing to leave it all behind when you sacrifice the ego. True?

Edited September 9, 2016 by Neo

[Prabhaker]

2 minutes ago, Neo said:

True, and yet the rich man has to be willing to leave it all behind when you sacrifice the ego. True?

Money can be beautiful -- if it is not possessed, if you don't become obsessed with it. I am not against money. I am not saying: 'Go and throw it away,' because that is another extreme. That is also the last step of the miserly mind. A man who has suffered too much because of money, who has clung to money and could not love anybody or become open, becomes so frustrated in the end that he throws away the money, renounces and goes to the Himalayas, enters a Tibetan monastery and becomes a lama. This man has not understood. If you understand, money can be used, but people who don't understand are either misers, they can't use the money, or they renounce the money, because in renouncing they are also saving the same mind.

[Markus]

Is it easier? I have no idea since I've never lived in those countries or even visited them. However, don't play a victim with your time. The only (probably) inevitable activities are sleeping, eating, using the bathroom, and doing work that earns you a living / studying. These bare essentials are required in the east too, aren't they? Everything else in Western culture is voluntary. You don't have to watch TV, go out, etc. That's all your responsibility.

[Prabhaker]

4 minutes ago, Markus said:

doing work that earns you a living / studying. These bare essentials are required in the east too, aren't they?

There are millions of people in India who are unemployed or poorly paid. It will be very cruel if one expects from them to become a meditator or "seeker of truth". They need bread.