13% of the population commit 53% of US murders

[Epikur]

2 minutes ago, wwhy said:

The fact that you linked to a table with over two hundred unique data points (table cells) and just focused on one in your title (where did you get the 13% from, your manual calculations?) shows your own biases. Accusing others of being bias is a bit hypocritical.

“There are three types of lies -- lies, damn lies, and statistics.”
- Benjamin Disraeli

“Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are pliable.”
- Mark Twain

Sorry this is weak.

[wwhy]

There is no need to apologize for your point of view.

If someones whole premise is "this are the statistics, you cannot argue against them", that need to be challenged in of itself. That's my point.

[Epikur]

4 minutes ago, wwhy said:

There is no need to apologize for your point of view.

If someones whole premise is "this are the statistics, you cannot argue against them", that need to be challenged in of itself. That's my point.

Yes with good arguments not with bad ones imho

[wwhy]

Your arguments about someones arguments being weak or not good are even worse.

Lets hear something substantial.

[Epikur]

14 minutes ago, wwhy said:

Your arguments about someones arguments being weak or not good are even worse.

Lets hear something substantial.

First of all you did not really challenge these numbers anyway. So it is unclear what your point is.

[Preety_India]

@wwhy

You are going to be a tremendous contribution to the forum.. You make better arguments than me. I'm very impressed at your skill. 

A hearty welcome from me buddy. You are a gem. 

 

 

 

 

[wwhy]

6 minutes ago, Epikur said:

First of all you did not really challenge these numbers anyway. So it is unclear what your point is.

My point is either weak or unclear. Weak means you got it but were not very impressed, unclear means you did not get it.

Make up your mind!

[wwhy]

@Preety_India

 

[Epikur]

1 minute ago, wwhy said:

My point is either weak or unclear. Weak means you got it but were not very impressed, unclear means you did not get it.

Make up your mind!

I wanted to make it diplomatic and said weak. Actually you didn't have any argument at all as far as I can see regarding the validity and the importance of the numbers.

I wrote before in another thread that you don't use arguments.

 

[wwhy]

Ah! So you are just cheerleading then?

As for me, I'm here to engage in substantial discourse, not "you said bad!", "you said unclear!", "this is weak!"  kind of refrains. Thats just boring. Carry on, I'll just steer clear and let you do your thing.

[Epikur]

Just now, wwhy said:

Ah! So you are just cheerleading then?

As for me, I'm here to engage in substantial discourse, not "you said bad!", "you said unclear!", "this is weak!"  kind of refrains. Thats just boring. Carry on, I'll just steer clear and let you do your thing.

No I am trying to motivate to raise the level. Something like:

Yes statistic is important
Yes these numbers mean something

Then you can talk about how to solve it

 

[RareGodzilla]

Black people commit more crime because they are poor and have little economic prospect. Happy people with perspective and goals tend to not commit as much crime. Give these poor folks job prospects, housing and all the basic healthcare they need and the crime rates will plummet. It would also help poor white Americans, there's more of these than we tend to think.

[Onemanwolfpac]

14 hours ago, wwhy said:

I think the statistics show that 13% of the population is living in such dire straits, that their society (of which they are part and parcel of) does not put much value in their lives.

Have you looked into who the biggest victims of those murders are : https://www.statista.com/statistics/251877/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-race-ethnicity-and-gender/

What do you think of these statistics?

 

6 hours ago, wwhy said:

There is no need to apologize for your point of view.

If someones whole premise is "this are the statistics, you cannot argue against them", that need to be challenged in of itself. That's my point.

That is not a argument. Closing your eyes doesn't mean that the stats don't exist. You see a similar response when looking at democratic states and the crime rate. 

 

7 hours ago, Enlightenment said:

Not a good attitude to have if you care about the truth

That's why she's on my block list. You cannot reason with people like that. They are unreasonable. The delusional aspect is the color spiral shtick but close minded. The lies people will tell themselves. Furthermore, with a ego like that, the scapegoat is hate speech, racist or misogyny parroting. Its lazy and disingenuous. 

For all the click bait on orange man bad yet, blm leader commentary gets radio silence from the left. Shocker. I am. Not surprised. 

Save your breathe. The riots and looting as well as poverty loop continues because its a cycle. Until people unplug and stop running to the government for more money and fathers are in the homes, it won't change. 

[Epikur]

Blacks in Israel:
 

Quote

After Years of Denying it, Israel Finally Admits to Sterilizing Black Ethiopian Jewish Immigrants Without their Knowledge

https://washingtondailyreport.com/years-denying-israel-finally/

Edited July 7, 2020 by Epikur

[Forestluv]

Of course crime won’t be evenly distributed in a society. There will be a bell-curve of ranging from people that do no crime, to people doing minor crime to people doing hard crimes. Another way of looking at it is the “80/20 rule”. 20% makes up 80%. For example, 20% of the students in a class cause 80% of the problems. 

On 7/4/2020 at 6:17 AM, Enlightenment said:

Seems like black people are much more likely to commit murder

Notice how this is reduced this to one variable. This is a hyper-simplistic binary construct.

Consider:

Do black people raised in wealthy, healthy communities have a higher likelihood of having black hair compared to white people raised in poor, unhealthy communities? (Yes).

Do black people raised in wealthy, healthy communities commit murder more often than white people raised in poor, unhealthy communities? (No).

 

[Consept]

These threads are simple it comes down to 2 scenarios 

1. Black people are inherently more violent and aggressive. If you believe that poverty is the main cause then black people are inherently lazy and dont want to work or better themselves. Either theres something inherent in them that causes the stats we're seeing 

2. There are complexed socio-economic and historical issues that have led and contributed to the situation that black people find themselves in. 

If you present these stats as the be all and end all (not saying op is doing that), then you subscribe to number 1. If youre interested in why this is the case and want to get to the route of it then most likely you subscribe to number 2. I think if youre making an argument with these stats you should be clear what scenario you are arguing for. 

Edited July 7, 2020 by Consept

[Epikur]

6 hours ago, Consept said:

These threads are simple it comes down to 2 scenarios 

1. Black people are inherently more violent and aggressive. If you believe that poverty is the main cause then black people are inherently lazy and dont want to work or better themselves. Either theres something inherent in them that causes the stats we're seeing 

2. There are complexed socio-economic and historical issues that have led and contributed to the situation that black people find themselves in. 

If you present these stats as the be all and end all (not saying op is doing that), then you subscribe to number 1. If youre interested in why this is the case and want to get to the route of it then most likely you subscribe to number 2. I think if youre making an argument with these stats you should be clear what scenario you are arguing for. 

Most people didn't know these numbers. When confronted with them people get shocked. That is why Vaush became popular. He tried to discuss tabu subjects.

 

[ajasatya]

@Epikur Hi. Data Scientist / Statistician here.

Statistics is much deeper than averages and percentages. If you really want to get into the real thing, go learn about causal inference and selection biases.

Finding unbiased predictors for phenomena is no easy task. You might as well need at least a BSc in Statistics or Econometrics before you start to understand the depths of this subject.

What you're showing is not even statistics per se... it's just a chunk of aggregated data.

[Epikur]

1 minute ago, ajasatya said:

@Epikur Hi. Data Scientist / Statistician here.

Statistics is much deeper than averages and percentages. If you really want to get into the real thing, go learn about causal inference and selection biases.

Finding unbiased predictors for phenomena is no easy task. You might as well need at least a BSc in Statistics or Econometrics to understand the depths of this subject.

What you're showing is not even statistics per se... it's just a chunk of aggregated data.

What's your point? Statistics are complicated? Don't trust statisticians?

I would argue that these numbers are important in the perspective of the average person. These numbers has been tried to be kept secret because it's too dangerous. 

So in the culture war these numbers became more known as the right wing spred it aggressively. This created a shock to the people who didn't know these numbers. 



 

[Forestluv]

For those interested in learning the basics of causal inference and selection bias.