Can someone help me explain to my grandad who created God please? :)

[Lucidliving1234]

my grandads a firm materialist and evolutionist and says he doesn’t think there is a god because if there is then who created god something can’t be made from nothing

 

a good simple answer he can understand would be much appreciated thank you ? 

the best I have so far is about time and beginning and end are man made concepts and reality isn’t that just appears that way through a constant changing of appearances and forms

Edited July 3, 2020 by Lucidliving1234

[JayG84]

4 minutes ago, Lucidliving1234 said:

a good simple answer he can understand would be much appreciated thank you ?

What makes you think anything you say will make him understand?

What's the "thing" in you that wants him to understand? 

[Carl-Richard]

Unless he is genuinely curious and you're not pestering him with it, the odds of him even listening to what you're going to say is zero to none. You can't really argue people out of a stage of development.

[Forestluv]

7 minutes ago, Lucidliving1234 said:

my grandads a firm materialist and evolutionist and says he doesn’t think there is a god because if there is then who created god something can’t be made from nothing

Of course that framework won’t make sense. That frame has an external god. It has a creator that is separate from that which is created. 

A nondual frame is very different, yet also very difficult for a mind that perceives in duality. For example, you could contextualize God as Everything or ISness. This is a very different context.

[justfortoday]

Nothingness is uncreated, therefore eternal. This nothingness is a single dimensionless singularity which projects the reality upon the formless void, for the experience of the uncreated, so that creation can manifest itself.

God is an eternal sacrifice.

Edited July 3, 2020 by justfortoday

[Someone here]

49 minutes ago, Lucidliving1234 said:

my grandads a firm materialist and evolutionist and says he doesn’t think there is a god because if there is then who created god something can’t be made from nothing

God is nothing lmao. 

If not from nothing.. Where do you think all of existence came from?  From something?  But as you said  something has to be always explained by another something because something is limited.  Only nothing is unlimited.  You can't look for the origin of form in form because by the definition of being a form it has to be limited and partial.   Only nothing is self-sufficient.. Unlimited and uncaused.  Looks like the characteristics of a God no? 

[peachboy]

First, start with the logical certainty that unconsciousness cannot manifest in the first-person. There is no such thing as first-person unconsciousness. 

In the absence of first-person unconsciousness, all that remains is first-person consciousness.

Or in other words, there can never be a moment when you're not having an experience. All that can change is the nature of that experience. That is true without end, and without beginning, and transcendental of time. It is simply not possible to experience a lack of experience.

So when it comes to understanding who you are, there are clearly two parts: a part that is eternally constant, and a part that has the potential to change. The question is, which part should you identify with?

The entire definition of identity is predicated on a constant, as there is no such thing as variable identity. Therefore, when looking for a true identity, it makes no sense to identify with anything other than a constant, and in this case the constant is the constant nature of your consciousness.

Therefore the two parts of your being can be expressed in terms of both identity and state. Your identity is your eternal consciousness, and your current state is the particular incarnation of experience presently being experienced (commonly and erroneously known as personal identity).

Clearly, given that consciousness is eternal, the nature of your true identity is eternal. Or in other words, your true age is infinity. You have never not existed.

For that reason, there is no need for a creator. Consciousness doesn't have to be created by anything, simply because it is fundamental. It has no opposite. Death is merely the opposite of birth, not the opposite of life.

Science and religion often makes the mistake of assuming that something came from nothing, but in reality there is no such thing as nothing, as there is always consciousness which has the imaginative potential to manifest anything.

Consequently the starting proposition is false: Nothingness is not fundamental. Everythingness is fundamental. That is to say, you start with everything and simply work backwards. Life is an exercise in subtractive synthesis. We are not creating stuff, we are simply filtering stuff out.

We start with an infinite block of clay (everythingness) and filter and filter and filter until we have a clay figurine. When the clay figurine dies, the clay does not turn back into nothing, but rather the surrounding nothing, turns back into clay.

Comprehend all of that, and then just simply substitute the word Consciousness for the word God, and your Grandad's good to go.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2020 by peachboy

[Seraphim]

@peachboy Best answer! I think it's as close as one can get to an answer that will satisfy a materialist, linear thinking, logical mind.

Edited July 3, 2020 by Seraphim

[molosku]

@peachboy "Or in other words, there can never be a moment when you're not having an experience" 

"but what about dreamless sleep!?" Hardest part to explain is that right there, on the otherhand you must deny objective reality, but at the same time you must deny solipsism. It just does not compute at ALL with your regular experience. 

[Carl-Richard]

8 minutes ago, molosku said:

@peachboy "Or in other words, there can never be a moment when you're not having an experience" 

"but what about dreamless sleep!?" Hardest part to explain is that right there, on the otherhand you must deny objective reality, but at the same time you must deny solipsism. It just does not compute at ALL with your regular experience. 

Be very careful in your investigation and try to see if have ever experienced a "non-experience". You're saying there is a discontinuity between going to sleep and waking up (which is true), but can you ever point to a true non-experience?

Do you see the contradiction? You can only ever point to something within your own your experience, and therefore you can never point to a non-experience.

Whatever you think you're pointing to that you believe is the non-experience of dreamless sleep, do you see how that is currently occuring within your own experience?

Edited July 3, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Gesundheit]

Why trying to change his mind when he's already close to finding out? The transition from one perspective to another is a hefty endeavour, which he will resist with all his power. Instead, I suggest that you try to spend more time on making him happy and satisfied. Let him have some peace of mind.

[Nak Khid]

Quote

Can someone help me explain to my grandad who created God please?

There was a another God before the current God who created the current God but the earlier one passed away,

Contrary to popular belief they exist for trillions of years but not forever. 

 

[Leo Gura]

God is unlimited. An unlimited thing can create itself, since it is unlimited.

The inability to create oneself is a limit.

If God could not create itself, it would be limited, which is impossible since ONENESS requires that all limits be self-imposed.

If everything is ONE, that means the creator and creation are identical.

You really gotta appreciate that unlimited means ABSOLUTE UNLIMITED! Zero fucking limits!

[Nak Khid]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

God is unlimited. An unlimited thing can create itself, since it is unlimited.

The inability to create oneself is a limit.

If God could not create itself, it would be limited, which is impossible since ONENESS requires that all limits be self-imposed.

If everything is ONE, that means the creator and creation are identical.

You really gotta appreciate that unlimited means ABSOLUTE UNLIMITED! Zero fucking limits!

So limited things are not God, interesting 

 

[Carl-Richard]

4 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

So limited things are not God, interesting 

 

Limited things are imaginary confines within a limitless whole which is God.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Artsu]

If he wants to know who created God, doesn't he also want to know who created the universe? So either God created it, or the universe always was, or came from another universe or something. It's really a non issue that it's hard to fathom God being eternal, because you confront the same problem when contemplating the universe.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Nak Khid said:

There was a another God before the current God who created the current God but the earlier one passed away,

Contrary to popular belief they exist for trillions of years but not forever. 

 

Who created the one before the next? It inevitably leads to an infinite regression, which is limitless. This "limitlessness" IS God.

[Nak Khid]

 

8 minutes ago, Artsu said:

If he wants to know who created God, doesn't he also want to know who created the universe? 

Yes we can't limit ourselves to assuming God created the universe, God may merely be in it but not having created it 

[Nak Khid]

 

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Who created the one before the next? It inevitably leads to an infinite regression, which is limitless. This "limitlessness" IS God.

No, the first one went back in time infinitely but then died.   We are only up to the third one and no one knows if they will go on forever 

[traveler]

7 hours ago, Lucidliving1234 said:

my grandads a firm materialist and evolutionist and says he doesn’t think there is a god because if there is then who created god something can’t be made from nothing

There is no god. 

There is only god. 

Nothing and something is one. 

There is no God in the sense that an apparent person think of God. 

There is no reason whatsoever to change your grandpas beliefs. Let him be, rub his hairy old feet and make him a cup of tea, listen to his old war stories, listen to how it was back when he was young, all of that is God.