Freewill On Where To Shine Awareness?

[JustinS]

There is no freewill upon our thoughts and actions but is there freewill on watching one's own thoughts? Do we have will on where to shine our awareness on? Awareness on sensations, thoughts, emotions? 

[vizual]

@JustinS  By shining awareness on something you simply mean to concentrate on something. For instance, concentrating on one's thoughts. When you are concentrating on your thoughts, who is that is doing the concentrating? Has that thing/person any choice in the matter?

Let's say you are meditating on your breath, you are concentrating on the inhalation and exhalation of air. But all of the sudden someone smacks you on the back of the head with a stick. The direct instinct is to shift the concentration of the breath to the person behind you. So who is it that shifts the awareness of the breath to the person behind you? And what is the difference between an "action" and a "shift of awareness"? I ask the last question since you have concluded that there is no free will in the actions you take.

[JustinS]

22 minutes ago, vizual said:

So who is it that shifts the awareness of the breath to the person behind you?

@vizual Hmm awareness itself?.. I suppose I have no control over my awareness either. 

24 minutes ago, vizual said:

And what is the difference between an "action" and a "shift of awareness"?

I believe a shift of awareness brings about before an action.

But then again human instincts? 

[WelcometoReality]

10 hours ago, JustinS said:

There is no freewill upon our thoughts and actions but is there freewill on watching one's own thoughts? Do we have will on where to shine our awareness on? Awareness on sensations, thoughts, emotions? 

Would you believe me if I told you? ☺ 

Is believing someone else free will? It is letting someone else control you, so what do you experience yourself? Do you experience free will? What is it that chooses?

Edited July 26, 2016 by WelcometoReality

[JustinS]

@WelcometoReality Sure it does seem like I'm controlling the body at the experimental level.

When I break it down, I notice that there is a subtle thought before any action "I" take, but thoughts cannot be predicted, as they are produced depending my previous experiences and current surrounding environment. However, there seems to be no thoughts (or at least that I'm aware) of being aware of the thoughts. 

13 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

What is it that chooses?

At the level of Reality, no one but a story called "I". 

Edited July 26, 2016 by JustinS
added words

[WelcometoReality]

12 hours ago, JustinS said:

@WelcometoReality Sure it does seem like I'm controlling the body at the experimental level.

When I break it down, I notice that there is a subtle thought before any action "I" take, but thoughts cannot be predicted, as they are produced depending my previous experiences and current surrounding environment.

Is this your current experience or a thought?

However, there seems to be no thoughts (or at least that I'm aware) of being aware of the thoughts. 

At the level of Reality, no one but a story called "I". 

The story is just thoughts ain't it?  You notice the thoughts, so what are you?

 

[Consept]

Personally I can't see how there is free will. When a thought pops up, when did you decide to have that thought pop up? Similarly when you 'decide' to watch your thoughts what was the pre-cursor to that, did you decide to think of watching your thoughts? 

At some point if you look at the origin of your thought, youll see you didn't 'do' it, although it does feel like that. 

 

[electroBeam]

14 hours ago, JustinS said:

@WelcometoReality Sure it does seem like I'm controlling the body at the experimental level.

When I break it down, I notice that there is a subtle thought before any action "I" take, but thoughts cannot be predicted, as they are produced depending my previous experiences and current surrounding environment. However, there seems to be no thoughts (or at least that I'm aware) of being aware of the thoughts. 

At the level of Reality, no one but a story called "I". 

Yeah this is exactly what it seems to 'me' too.

When you talk about free will, you automatically make a division between 'you' and the world you are gaining free will from. For free will to exist, something has to have free will in the first place. Now can you spot that thing anywhere in awareness? I can't....

[Leo Gura]

On 7/25/2016 at 11:16 AM, JustinS said:

Do we have will on where to shine our awareness on? Awareness on sensations, thoughts, emotions?

No!

That's the whole point!

You do not control awareness. Try it.

[JustinS]

@Leo Gura

Do you mean we cannot control awareness but only to recognize (with thought) our already full timeless awareness. 

[JustinS]

@Consept "did you decide to think of watching your thoughts?"

 

Yeah there are thoughts prior. I would say does the witnesser of thoughts have thoughts? 

[JustinS]

@WelcometoReality

"The story is just thoughts ain't it?  You notice the thoughts, so what are you?"

 

Witnesser, awareness, or just witnessing. A verb. 

[Leo Gura]

26 minutes ago, JustinS said:

@Leo Gura

Do you mean we cannot control awareness but only to recognize (with thought) our already full timeless awareness. 

You cannot recognize awareness with thought. But only with awareness.

There is NOTHING more primary than awareness! You cannot reduce it to anything else. It is the rock bottom. So don't try to redefine awareness in terms of something else. Instead, redefine everything else you know in terms of awareness. Because there exists nothing else but it. Everything else you think exists is an illusion.

[Consept]

@JustinS 

If the witnesser of thoughts had thoughts, who is then witnessing the thoughts of the witnesser? 

[electroBeam]

@JustinS

To be totally honest, your confusion is correct, not having free will doesn't make sense, its completely absurd!!! How can 'you' not have free will???? You're making decisions aren't you?? You, whatever you are, awareness, an ego, you must be doing some action??

But here's the thing, you're making the mistake of thinking that you are something. You aren't. identification itself is an illusion. You are undefined, 'you are <fill in something>' doesn't work beyond thought. 

And this may seem voo doo to you right now, but that's just because you are looking at this from an unrealistic perspective. You are trying to do: cat + dog when you try to think about how you are not existing. It doesn't make sense. When awareness reveals that ego is an illusion, the mindset will change from English to Mathematics, 5 + 6 will be in awareness instead, making perfect sense. 

Being in a state of connection to the ego, and being in a state of detachment, are literally as different as parallel universes, which you can experience.

You not having free will doesn't make sense in a paradigm that believes that the ego is a real thing, or that someone is percieving awareness.

But having free will doesn't make sense in a paradigm that doesn't identify with the ego, a paradigm that looks at awareness directly in the face, without any thoughts attached.

I dont think you can describe these experiences or understandings, but nothing stops you from trying

Edited July 28, 2016 by electroBeam

[WelcometoReality]

3 hours ago, JustinS said:

@WelcometoReality

"The story is just thoughts ain't it?  You notice the thoughts, so what are you?"

 

Witnesser, awareness, or just witnessing. A verb. 

So does this witness have any control over whats witnessed?

[Consept]

1 hour ago, electroBeam said:

@JustinS

To be totally honest, your confusion is correct, not having free will doesn't make sense, its completely absurd!!! How can 'you' not have free will???? You're making decisions aren't you?? You, whatever you are, awareness, an ego, you must be doing some action??

But here's the thing, you're making the mistake of thinking that you are something. You aren't. identification itself is an illusion. You are undefined, 'you are <fill in something>' doesn't work beyond thought. 

And this may seem voo doo to you right now, but that's just because you are looking at this from an unrealistic perspective. You are trying to do: cat + dog when you try to think about how you are not existing. It doesn't make sense. When awareness reveals that ego is an illusion, the mindset will change from English to Mathematics, 5 + 6 will be in awareness instead, making perfect sense. 

Being in a state of connection to the ego, and being in a state of detachment, are literally as different as parallel universes, which you can experience.

You not having free will doesn't make sense in a paradigm that believes that the ego is a real thing, or that someone is percieving awareness.

But having free will doesn't make sense in a paradigm that doesn't identify with the ego, a paradigm that looks at awareness directly in the face, without any thoughts attached.

I dont think you can describe these experiences or understandings, but nothing stops you from trying

Summed it up quite well there. No free will doesn't make sense if you're identified as a separate ego and free will doesn't make sense if you realise ego is an illusion