what does the brain do?

[Jay Ray]

I am trying to understand the idea that consciousness doesn't come from the brain and that consciousness is from God/universe and so I am confused on how to integrate that with the tradition scientific understanding of the brain. 

if consciousness is infinite then what does the brain do exactly?

What is it's function from a spiritual point of view? does it have one ? 

how can I somewhat integrate a fragment of the traditional scientific views of the brain with non-dual spiritual teachings? is this possible to do? 

 

Thank you. 

 

[allislove]

But why? What the goal of this conceptual understanding? 

I can understand if you want to understand how to cook for example but what the point of this knowledge? 

Spiritual path is all about dropping the beliefs, no need for the new beliefs. It's the opposite direction to conceptualize spirituality. 

So, you can just have fun on spiritual forum, that's the only thing. 

For realisations do the practices ?

[The Lucid Dreamer]

Contrary to the materialist view, consciousness is not generated by the brain, rather, everything is consciousness and the brain’s role is merely focusing consciousness into a singular and specific perspective, where as without it, your perspective would be infinite and therefore you would be formless.  
 

At the same time though, the brain is being completely imagined by consciousness, and what you consider to be form and limited is simultaneously formlessness and unlimited to begin with.  Yes, it is a paradox. 

[Jay Ray]

@dimitri yeah that is so true. I guess I wanted to know as an egoic way of persevering myself from future doubt. 

"I want to know how the brain works with the non-dual spiritual models so I that I wont go back to stage orange atheism"  is what my ego is trying to ask.

"That is the real reason  I want to know, which is to increase certainty in order to not fear losing the peace which leo's videos give me. " writing this makes me see how egoic this is but I still feel like I have a hard time with it.  

 

I know that I need to give up certainty. but I am not sure exactly how. 

[An young being]

21 minutes ago, Jay Ray said:

2 minutes ago, The Lucid Dreamer said:

Contrary to the materialist view, consciousness is not generated by the brain, rather, everything is consciousness and the brain’s role is merely focusing consciousness into a singular and specific perspective, where as without it, your perspective would be infinite and therefore you would be formless.  
 

At the same time though, the brain is being completely imagined by consciousness, and what you consider to be form and limited is simultaneously formlessness and unlimited to begin with.  Yes, it is a paradox. 

 

What kind of experience (if it can be described in words) lead to the understanding that brain is imaginary?

[The Lucid Dreamer]

 

6 minutes ago, An young being said:

What kind of experience (if it can be described in words) lead to the understanding that brain is imaginary?

The experience is called “Ego-Death”. This is where the subject/object distinction in your normal everyday experience is completely erased, and you cease to experience being a separate self from everything else.  

[allislove]

@Jay Ray good, now we are talking.. 

Meditation as a first thing in the morning to let go of the beliefs about ego ??

And certainly you shouldn't figure out 'how', in the same way you don't know how moving fingers on your hand happen. 

Start a dreamboard, write what you want, let go of 'how', live life you always wanted ?

[Jay Ray]

@dimitri yeah that is true. I have thought that I have no idea how really how I move my body except from the most primitive level.  

how do I move my fingers? ..... "well, I just do it... I move them" anything deeper from a concept I have not found except that I feel awe when thinking about it. I don't know "How" I do it at all.  The "How" in anything really. 

 

I can actually feel my ego very slightly right now getting frustrated when writing this. However also, there is a lot of peace as well.  It is like a slight numb pain of boredom and annoyance.  

have you experienced this 2 simultaneous feelings of peace and bored/upset. 

 

Thank you so much!

Jay

 

[allislove]

@Jay Ray good-good, I feel you are quite advanced spiritual seeker ?

There is a direct relation between thought and feeling. Every thought can be felt differently. You can always trust your feelings, no matter what. So, when you write Truth of course it feels like Truth = Happiness = Peace. But there is also some belief onplay which ultimately stems from 'I am separate self" belief which feels 'bored/upset'. Let go of this belief and be in peace ?

[An young being]

54 minutes ago, The Lucid Dreamer said:

Contrary to the materialist view, consciousness is not generated by the brain, rather, everything is consciousness and the brain’s role is merely focusing consciousness into a singular and specific perspective, where as without it, your perspective would be infinite and therefore you would be formless.  
 

At the same time though, the brain is being completely imagined by consciousness, and what you consider to be form and limited is simultaneously formlessness and unlimited to begin with.  Yes, it is a paradox. 

41 minutes ago, The Lucid Dreamer said:

 

The experience is called “Ego-Death”. This is where the subject/object distinction in your normal everyday experience is completely erased, and you cease to experience being a separate self from everything else. 

Why can't awakening be an experience that switches off your senses and brain so that you can see what you are fundamentally made of? Making you less aware of your surroundings ( which is taken by your sense organs) but more aware of the primary source of energy which is consciousness? Can you deny this statement through experience?

[Jay Ray]

@dimitri Wow, I never thought to look at the painful part of me (the bored/upset) part of me as a belief. I always looked at it as if it was a small animal like consciousnesses which had a life of it's own and I had very little control over. This belief seems to be able to generate negative emotions though. like anger and the feeling of "I am not enough". Is looking at it like it as smaller being counter productive or should it be looked at as just a thought? 

what should be done about the emotions that come from saying "hey ego.... you are just a thought" which will indeed cause so much anger.

 

thank you!

[An young being]

1 minute ago, Jay Ray said:

@dimitri Wow, I never thought to look at the painful part of me (the bored/upset) part of me as a belief. I always looked at it as if it was a small animal like consciousnesses which had a life of it's own and I had very little control over. This belief seems to be able to generate negative emotions though. like anger and the feeling of "I am not enough". Is looking at it like it as smaller being counter productive or should it be looked at as just a thought? 

what should be done about the emotions that come from saying "hey ego.... you are just a thought" which will indeed cause so much anger.

 

thank you!

By realising that emotions like anger, are no different than thoughts.

[peachboy]

1. God wants to go on vacation from being God.

2. God realises such a vacation implies ignorance.

3. God (worried about becoming eternally ignorant) imagines a fail safe mechanism for a safe return home.

4. God also realises God could realise God is God while ignorant.

5. God (worried about realising God is God while ignorant) imagines a fail safe mechanism for a stable existence on vacation.

6. God invents brain.

7. Hitler invades Poland.

  

 

 

[allislove]

@Jay Ray yes, it's a belief. And it feels 'not good' because it's a lie. Imagine, there is a Higher Self which says: all is good, and you say: no, it's not. Higher Self talks to you via feelings! Highers Self = you of course. 

You have full control. You create your own reality. 

If something doesn't feel good - let it go, don't hold it, release it, don't cling to it. Meditation is a tool for letting go. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Jay Ray said:

what does the brain do exactly?

What does Mario's head do exactly in a video game?

Is Mario's head generating the simulation? No. And yet, without a head, Mario couldn't be Mario. So the head is important. You can't just cut off Mario's head. But Mario's head is not causing the simulation, it's a small part of the larger simulation.

Notice: No part of the simulation causes the simulation. The simulation's cause is COMPLETELY outside the plane of the simulation. There is no way for Mario to see what causes his simulated world from within the simulation. Mario would have to jump outside the simulation to understand it. Which is why humans struggle so much to resolve the mind/body problem. It cannot be resolved from inside the dream. You must awaken. You must breaknthrough the dream as a whole. You must see the whole thing as a dream. You must exit the Matrix to see what causes the Matrix. It is impossible to understand the Matrix from within the Matrix. Brains and science are all within the Matrix.

[allislove]

@Jay Ray thought arises and passes. The only choice there is is to let it go or cling to it. Use feeling for determining what to do. 

I think you have enough for today to ponder. 

?

Edited July 2, 2020 by dimitri

[An young being]

30 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What does Mario's head do exactly in a video game?

Is Mario's head generating the simulation? No. And yet, without a head, Mario couldn't be Mario. So the head is important. You can't just cut off Mario's head. But Mario's head is not causing the simulation, it's a small part of the larger simulation.

Notice: No part of the simulation causes the simulation. The simulation's cause is COMPLETELY outside the plane of the simulation. There is no way for Mario to see what causes his simulated world from within the simulation. Mario would have to jump outside the simulation to understand it. Which is why humans struggle so much to resolve the mind/body problem. It cannot be resolved from inside the dream. You must awaken. You must breaknthrough the dream as a whole. You must see the whole thing as a dream. You must exit the Matrix to see what causes the Matrix. It is impossible to understand the Matrix from within the Matrix. Brains and science are all within the Matrix.

Is the analogy you are generating in your mind similar to the experience you had during awakening ? Or is your mind automatically creating thoughts to make something out of what you had experienced?

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, An young being said:

Is the analogy you are generating in your mind similar to the experience you had during awakening ? Or is your mind automatically creating thoughts to make something out of what you had experienced?

Obviously it's just an analogy. Don't take it too literally.

Awakening cannot be imagined or pictured in any way.

[Nak Khid]

4 hours ago, The Lucid Dreamer said:

 the brain’s role is merely focusing consciousness.... 

 the brain is being completely imagined by consciousness

So consciousness imagines a brain so the imaginary brain can focus it 

[Flyboy]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

What does Mario's head do exactly in a video game?

Is Mario's head generating the simulation? No. And yet, without a head, Mario couldn't be Mario. So the head is important. You can't just cut off Mario's head. But Mario's head is not causing the simulation, it's a small part of the larger simulation.

Notice: No part of the simulation causes the simulation. The simulation's cause is COMPLETELY outside the plane of the simulation. There is no way for Mario to see what causes his simulated world from within the simulation. Mario would have to jump outside the simulation to understand it. Which is why humans struggle so much to resolve the mind/body problem. It cannot be resolved from inside the dream. You must awaken. You must breaknthrough the dream as a whole. You must see the whole thing as a dream. You must exit the Matrix to see what causes the Matrix. It is impossible to understand the Matrix from within the Matrix. Brains and science are all within the Matrix.

So Leo, what is your opinion then on the future of AI?  Is it "impossible" to generate artificial consciousness?  It is very easy to create organic life, and there seems to be no "limitation" on organic production, so why would God limit our ability to bestow consciousness on machine life?  

If the brain channels infinite consciousness into finite consciousness, shouldn't an artificial brain be capable of doing the same thing?  If not, why?  If so, what does that imply?  (ie. IF conscious AI can be built, does that invalidate all of nonduality?  It would experience Being with no self, and yet be finite and limited)

It feels like a wrench in the system, but I would love to hear more on this.