On Dreams And Enlightenment

[Tariq]

Before reading:

1. This was written with no previous planning so don't expect the flow of ideas to be very organized.
2. I am well aware that this is philosophizing and you should do the real deep work not just think about stuff lik.. Don't bother.
3. This thread is meant to be a discussion.

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So we all know the ego has a huge influence over what we subconsciously desire and what we want to pursue to a point of neurosis and restlessness.

By definition, an enlightened person realised the futility of his ego which just vanished as result in the same way that a mirage disappears when you get to it.

For an ordinary person dreaming is where his ego goes about all of it's frustrations and bonds with the subconscious to create the most amazing yet illogical of stories in a way that's so amazingly creative yet soo... ungrounded (do you notice how your dreams don't care about neither space nor time or any other structure?)

From this we get numerous insights into our psyche and what really troubles us, could all of those insights be ultimately meaningless?

Back to the Enlightened person, he is aware of how all of the concepts we create or think are true are no more truer than any of our dreams (after all both seem logical when we are experiencing them). Simply put, nothing really bothers him and he's not trying to do anything because everything gets done without m trying to force it or anything.

Now, what the hell could this person be dreaming ?!

His ego is "dead" So all what it might do stops completly.

He has no frustrations so what kind of meaningful insights could he be getting from the higher part of him if it is the sender and receptor at the same time ?

 

I have my own ideas about this but a discussion always helps.

[Guivs]

I cannot speak fron personal experience, so let me just quote a conversation between a monk and Bankei, a zen master and also an explanation by Namkhai Norbu.

A monk asked : "when I'm sleeping soundly, I have dreams. How is it that we have dreams ? I'd like your opinion on this."

The Master said:"When a person is sound asleep he doesn't have dreams. When you have dreams, you're not sleeping soundly."

The monk was speechless.

 

Another account from Namkhai Norbu.

" When a practicioner has attained complete stability in contemplation, even if he is not engaged in any practice in particular, as soon as he falls asleep he finds himself in the state of natural light(1) and when he dreams, is aware that he is dreaming. Such an individual's practice is complete,and whether he lives or dies, he is always present, having achieved the Sambhogakaya."

 

(1) the state of natural light corresponds to the phase between falling asleep and the arising of dreams. In this period, even if the mind does not function, the practicioner continues in the clarity of the state of presence

That's all I got

[key]

On 25 July 2016 at 11:27 PM, Tariq said:

 

1. I am well aware that this is philosophizing and you should do the real deep work not just think about stuff lik.. Don't bother. 

It's fun to play with ideas, as what somebody would dream once self-realized? Who knows? Nothing of dire importance I'd assume.

I'd just like to point out that your view on enlightenment and the ego are wrong, and you're not going to learn by me spewing words at you, nor do I have the will to, but there's hundreds of thousands of words on this forum to learn from if you're eager to do so. 

 

[Matthew Lamot]

14 minutes ago, Kenya said:

It's fun to play with ideas, as what somebody would dream once self-realized? Who knows? Nothing of dire importance I'd assume.

I'd just like to point out that your view on enlightenment and the ego are wrong, and you're not going to learn by me spewing words at you, nor do I have the will to, but there's hundreds of thousands of words on this forum to learn from if you're eager to do so. 

 

Interesting.  I'm glad you rocked up Kenya, 

Im interested in finding out your insights on enlightenment and ego, if you want to share I am looking to learn.

[Tariq]

2 hours ago, Wormon Blatburm said:

@Tariq An enlightened person is just living life, and he dreams about life, just like "unenlightened" people. It's that simple lol.

It just struck me that not all dreams have a deficiency-based motivator.It makes sense now, cool !

9 hours ago, Kenya said:

It's fun to play with ideas, as what somebody would dream once self-realized? Who knows? Nothing of dire importance I'd assume.

I'd just like to point out that your view on enlightenment and the ego are wrong, and you're not going to learn by me spewing words at you, nor do I have the will to, but there's hundreds of thousands of words on this forum to learn from if you're eager to do so. 

 

Maybe, right now I'm trying to focus more on Maslow's view of self-actualization, It's more practical and focusing on enlightenement at this stage of my life might be disastrous as I don't have any personnal needs secured yet

My views might seem very shallow in nature for you but that's fine, there are always bigger fish on the sea and I'm still growing..

[Tariq]

It's not very wise to wear boots before putting on socks.

In the same way, it's not a great decision to sit down in a lotus position for hours every day when you're living a midst a bunch of neurotic people, can't secure food or shelter for yourself and people are constantly yelling at you to go to the mosquee and be a part of their gossiping, lying and fighting between relatives..

That seemed very negative. It's not that bad, I still enjoy my life very much and do alot of things that cannect me to the present moment (playing music, walks in nature...). So for now I'm acquiring skills and independance, maybe after that I'll comback to chuckle at how many times I wrote the letter "I" in here without meaning to

[key]

20 hours ago, Matthew Lamot said:

Interesting.  I'm glad you rocked up Kenya, 

Im interested in finding out your insights on enlightenment and ego, if you want to share I am looking to learn.

I do not know what enlightenment is, I know the words of others and use it as a guide but I do not hold those as true.

The ego as I see it is me, the words, images, sounds and feelings that appear within my experience creating a sense of this human being walking around in the world acting out on life, serving my own purpose for my own ends, yet if I take a close look at what I do, why I do it, how I do it, I slowly see the illusory nature by which individual thought can pin me down.

I seek the Truth of reality for my own desires, and teachings, practices, wisdom and advice from others have occupied my mind, served its purpose, then left on its own accord, for it be but another weight. I don't have an explanation on what enlightenment is, for I have not directly experienced it, so how could I communicate it?  

[Matthew Lamot]

16 minutes ago, Kenya said:

I do not know what enlightenment is, I know the words of others and use it as a guide but I do not hold those as true.

Good answer.