Is Leo's view of time correct?

[Nahm]

@Anderz

Yeah, I agree, seems to be the case everywhere. Nonduality is the pointing of ‘not two’ though. It is not a suggestion of one, or a oneness of reality, etc. Thus nonduality can not be a concept. Reality, would be the concept. 

[Anderz]

6 minutes ago, Member said:

Interesting but since it is a real number, it is equivalent to what? Because reality without awareness is nothing.

I think of consciousness as a feedback loop between the infinite unmanifested and the finite manifested. The unmanifested can be pictured as a continuous circle where all points are connected to each other. That's the same as an infinite undirected simple complete graph. Just a seemingly simple circle like that is mind-boggling. No matter how small section of the circle, there is always an infinite number of points in that section. It's called an uncountable infinite set. It's beyond enormous.

Manifested reality is the manifestation of that circle (graph) in the now. Leo said in some of his videos that reality is difference. That made me think of how to start with a single difference, and since it's a difference it has a 'this' and a 'that' which produce the first step of the graph. Then in the next step there are new differences between the previous differences and so on in explosion of differences.

The picture above is not exactly how the graph/circle increases in size, but it illustrates the idea. And the Omega number for our reality (multiverse) is a point somewhere on the circle. And that point is a real number.

[Anderz]

11 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Thus nonduality can not be a concept.

Even "not two" is a concept. Everything we post here are concepts. As nonduality teacher Ramesh Balsekar said, something like: Whatever any spiritual teacher or guru has said at any time, whatever any teaching has said ever, is a concept.

[Nahm]

@Anderz

When you say not two is a concept...there is you and that concept. But there are not two. 

[Anderz]

@Nahm You mean there is a difference between a pointer and a concept? I think of it as pointers being concepts, while concepts are not necessarily pointers. Even to say "not two including oneself" is a concept.

[Anderz]

The idea of consciousness as a feedback loop I got from alternative researcher Nassim Haramein. Here are two short videos where he explains the idea:

 

[Nahm]

@Anderz

More so pointing which is not to concept. 

[Anderz]

@Nahm One standard definition of concept is that it's an abstract idea. So for example Eckhart Tolle told a story about a Zen master who when asked what the nature of Zen is raised his finger and said nothing. That gesture is also a concept basically.

Anyway, why is there something rather than nothing? The answer is in the question itself. The question contains a difference between something and nothing. And since the question clearly exists, the difference exists. And that single difference produces our universe as I described earlier. Edit: On a second thought, that explanation is a bit of begging the question, because it takes the question as already existing when it's the existence of the question itself along with everything else in existence it's about. But anyway, I thought it was a new take on it.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Anderz

[Anderz]

In this video from about 4 minutes Leo says: "The only thing that is real is what exists right now in the present moment. The only thing that is real is what exists right now, for you, in your direct experience in the present moment."

What Leo said is exactly how I think of time. I don't know if Leo thinks the past is real, but the principle of everything in the now is consistent with direct experience and can be made logical sense even with a real past by saying that all the past is information in the now, and only in the now.

[Member]

15 hours ago, Anderz said:

Manifested reality is the manifestation of that circle (graph) in the now. Leo said in some of his videos that reality is difference. That made me think of how to start with a single difference, and since it's a difference it has a 'this' and a 'that' which produce the first step of the graph. Then in the next step there are new differences between the previous differences and so on in explosion of differences.

What do you mean with "That made me think of how to start with a single difference"?

15 hours ago, Anderz said:

The picture above is not exactly how the graph/circle increases in size, but it illustrates the idea. And the Omega number for our reality (multiverse) is a point somewhere on the circle. And that point is a real number.

Understood. But don't you think it is possible to take a giant leap (difference) in the present worth of a million of years of evolution? Because right now we're obviously struggling with homo sapiens limitations which in my opinion are nothing but a mind problem. Spacetime limitations are not actually 'there', so why does the unmanifested looks like a limitation?

Edited July 6, 2020 by Member

[Anderz]

@Member Leo actually blew my mind when he said that reality is difference. Because I had tried to picture how something can evolve from a single state. In the Wolfram model they haven't figured out yet what the initial condition is or what the rule for the graph is. Reality made of a single difference, that becomes really interesting. Because it's a minimal principle from which all of existence can emerge as I have shown. And the arrow of time is a direct consequence of the difference keeping on differentiating so to speak.

But where does evolution come from? That's where I have the Omega number (a Chaitin constant). The Omega number for our multiverse is a very special number which has intelligent "design". Notice that since it's just a number that just is (platonic form), no external or internal designer is needed. The Omega number is infinite, yet the manifestation of that number is always finite (compare with the Wolfram model where the graph is expanding yet always finite). The continuous circle I mentioned previously is the infinite unmanifested. Manifested reality will never reach infinity. So although the unmanifested and the manifested are one, the unmanifested will always be greater than the manifested, so time goes on forever.

Evolution is a result of increasing complexity. And complexity is information structured as holons. What we will experience is that larger and larger and more complex holons will emerge, including planet Earth as a single holon. Bruce Lipton calls it fractal evolution:

 

[Anderz]

34 minutes ago, Member said:

But don't you think it is possible to take a giant leap (difference) in the present worth of a million of years of evolution?

No, because we cannot cheat and jump ahead into the future. Take a look at for example Leo's new video about libertarianism, how our civilization is a result of an incredible struggle and development into larger and larger holons. One cannot just go from the Garden of Eden with humanity being in oneness with God in an undifferentiated state to the iPhone and the internet by wishful thinking. Nor can we by wishful thinking produce a technological singularity tomorrow. A technological singularity will not happen until the year 2045 according to Ray Kurzweil.

And as Kurzweil has explained, evolution accelerates because it builds on previous results. One cannot just skip one or more levels.

Quote

"We can organize these observations into what I call the law of accelerating returns as follows:

• Evolution applies positive feedback in that the more capable methods resulting from one stage of evolutionary progress are used to create the next stage. As a result, the
• rate of progress of an evolutionary process increases exponentially over time. Over time, the “order” of the information embedded in the evolutionary process (i.e., the measure of how well the information fits a purpose, which in evolution is survival) increases.
• A correlate of the above observation is that the “returns” of an evolutionary process (e.g., the speed, cost-effectiveness, or overall “power” of a process) increase exponentially over time.
• In another positive feedback loop, as a particular evolutionary process (e.g., computation) becomes more effective (e.g., cost effective), greater resources are deployed toward the further progress of that process. This results in a second level of exponential growth (i.e., the rate of exponential growth itself grows exponentially).
• Biological evolution is one such evolutionary process.
• Technological evolution is another such evolutionary process. Indeed, the emergence of the first technology creating species resulted in the new evolutionary process of technology. Therefore, technological evolution is an outgrowth of–and a continuation of–biological evolution.
• A specific paradigm (a method or approach to solving a problem, e.g., shrinking transistors on an integrated circuit as an approach to making more powerful computers) provides exponential growth until the method exhausts its potential. When this happens, a paradigm shift (i.e., a fundamental change in the approach) occurs, which enables exponential growth to continue.

If we apply these principles at the highest level of evolution on Earth, the first step, the creation of cells, introduced the paradigm of biology. The subsequent emergence of DNA provided a digital method to record the results of evolutionary experiments. Then, the evolution of a species who combined rational thought with an opposable appendage (i.e., the thumb) caused a fundamental paradigm shift from biology to technology. The upcoming primary paradigm shift will be from biological thinking to a hybrid combining biological and nonbiological thinking. This hybrid will include “biologically inspired” processes resulting from the reverse engineering of biological brains.

If we examine the timing of these steps, we see that the process has continuously accelerated. The evolution of life forms required billions of years for the first steps (e.g., primitive cells); later on progress accelerated. During the Cambrian explosion, major paradigm shifts took only tens of millions of years. Later on, Humanoids developed over a period of millions of years, and Homo sapiens over a period of only hundreds of thousands of years.

With the advent of a technology-creating species, the exponential pace became too fast for evolution through DNA-guided protein synthesis and moved on to human-created technology. Technology goes beyond mere tool making; it is a process of creating ever more powerful technology using the tools from the previous round of innovation." - https://www.kurzweilai.net/the-law-of-accelerating-returns

 

[Artsu]

@Anderz i did a similar universe construction from the principle of a relation. The relation has a certain relation to itself, and there is a relation between that relation and the initial one, ad infinitum.

(The relation of something to itself is equality, so you start with a general relation, and then comes equals. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Artsu

[Anderz]

@Artsu Yes, but a relation can be complete by having a relation to itself. A difference on the other hand results in duality since a difference in relation to itself is no difference. I think that was what impressed me so much by Leo saying that reality is difference.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Anderz

[Nahm]

@Anderz

Something is nothing.

[Artsu]

1 hour ago, Anderz said:

@Artsu Yes, but a relation can be complete by having a relation to itself. A difference on the other hand results in duality since a difference in relation to itself is no difference. I think that was what impressed me so much by Leo saying that reality is difference.

The general formula applies to both. It starts with a single concept which then gets applied to itself, producing a different concept. One model produces unity first, the other produces nothingness and duality.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Artsu

[Artsu]

Actually, for something to relate to itself, it has to be aware of itself, so perhaps awareness is the better starting piece. Awareness is aware of itself, so it is aware of being aware. This produces a different state of awareness, by becoming increasingly aware that it is aware.

Awareness could be seen as a universal in existence, since it precedes the question ever being raised.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Artsu

[tsuki]

Time does not exist as something. It is not 'now'.
Time is the precondition of temporality, the possibility of past, present and future.

In my particular existence as a human, I can only experience the present moment and imagine its consequences or origins.

[Artsu]

@tsuki surely there is the possibility of time being real as a something, isnt there? Its just that knowledge of the present precedes knowledge of time.

[Member]

2 hours ago, Anderz said:

No, because we cannot cheat and jump ahead into the future.

"In the normal four dimensions that make up spacetime as we know it, the shortest path between two points is a straight line, and the fastest way to travel across that distance is to move at the speed of light. Yet nothing is capable of being beamed at the speed of light other than light (MIND)"

Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2018/03/22/wormholes-star-gates-and-undetected-dimensions-are-the-theories-in-a-wrinkle-in-time-scientifically-plausible-7371515/

Time travel into the future is totally possible: https://phys.org/news/2020-05-future-totally.html

Edited July 6, 2020 by Member