Is Leo's view of time correct?

[Anderz]

1 minute ago, Member said:

The problem is that time/reality is purely mental. It's not like there is a giant block of information existing on its own. Without a mind, there is no time. So natural evolution is not what it seems.

But then what mind means needs to be defined. To me mind means the content in consciousness. And consciousness is an on/off state of being aware as a self. Spiritual teachers who claim that consciousness is everything resort to cop out explanations when it comes to deep dreamless sleep where as I see it consciousness is in an off state.

[Member]

28 minutes ago, Anderz said:

But then what mind means needs to be defined. To me mind means the content in consciousness. And consciousness is an on/off state of being aware as a self. Spiritual teachers who claim that consciousness is everything resort to cop out explanations when it comes to deep dreamless sleep where as I see it consciousness is in an off state.

Well, I'm not claiming to be enlightened and I have to admit that there are many gaps in my understanding, but I guess that many define infinite consciousness as being reality created by finite minds imagining things to infinity. So the explanation is that when you're dying or fall unconscious, it's just the manifested finite mind merging with the unmanifested. Honestly, it doesn't make too much sense as that's just our homo sapiens explanation of what death is because we're hearing this story all the time... and it's "duuuuh".

Something like:

Edited July 2, 2020 by Member

[Anderz]

@Member To say that everything is in the mind I believe is correct, but it's still useful to have an understanding of time. And time and mind are one, so it's impossible to claim that the mind is real and at the same time say that time is an illusion. Trying to remove time from the mind is like trying to remove space from the universe.

[Anderz]

Why hasn't humanity yet a clear understanding of time? Because, similar to free will, the true nature of time is something we need to NOT understand, if we want to continue with life as usual. Daily life today depends on the idea of free will and a past where we have lived at other times than the now.

Leo has I believe mentioned the true nature of time in some of his advanced videos, but it's so radical so it's difficult to really make it a practical understanding. For example Leo said that we were never born. That's correct, or to put it another way, we were born now. In today's society such claim seems so outlandish that hardly anybody can even think of it as an actual possibility. So this is radical stuff.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Anderz

[Yog]

I hope these don't show up in Leos room one day....
 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by Yog

[Member]

24 minutes ago, Anderz said:

Trying to remove time from the mind is like trying to remove space from the universe.

But trying to remove the mind is like erasing the whole universe/you/everything. It seems pretty unlikely that inanimate objects would exist on their own without the mental or thinking process. From my perspective, the root of all suffering is a misunderstanding of all these mental processes that appear as being located in the homo sapiens brain, while truth could be a lot more alien than that. So why we should retain these primitive/self-limiting beliefs that reality is all there is and not try to expand our minds further? That's how evolution works. But since humans seem to suffer from Stockholm syndrome/there is no free will/it's all death and diseases mindset, there's no true understanding or novelty besides boring repetition of different patterns.

[Anderz]

33 minutes ago, Member said:

It seems pretty unlikely that inanimate objects would exist on their own without the mental or thinking process.

I forgot to explain in more detail what I mean by mind. By mind as content experienced in consciousness I mean everything! So the whole physical body is mind, and the environment outside the body is mind, and the earth and the universe, that's all mind, content in consciousness.

So yes, with my view inanimate objects and mind are one. Regarding time, when my consciousness is in an off state during dreamless sleep, time is still moving as usual as I see it, and the world exists even then. The material world is simply information in the now, and consciousness is a feedback loop between the infinite unmanifested and the manifested reality. The manifested information is always totally indestructible and goes on expanding.

[Anderz]

Notice that there is clock time and also psychological time. The subjective experience of time can vary a lot, and I imagine with psychedelics time can really be experienced in radical ways. The experience of time depends on how the information in the now is perceived in consciousness. But there is also I believe a definite constant flow of "clock" time. As a side note, even the reality we experience can vary a lot, including things such as out-of-body experiences (OBEs) and even astral travel and psychedelic realities etc. It's all information in the now being experienced in consciousness. And for example real OBEs are consciousness actually manifesting in the vacuum energy of "empty" space, and not some mere hallucinations in the brain.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Anderz

[Anderz]

Time is an ever increase of indestructible information. Physicist Leonard Susskind's explanation of how information is indestructible and how entropy is hidden information can be compared to a computer simulation. To simulate a motionless bottle on a table is much easier than simulating the bottle breaking, which looks like more entropy but in reality is more complexity. So the information Susskind is talking about is at the fundamental level of reality. Actual destruction is impossible in reality.

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by Anderz

[Member]

1 hour ago, Anderz said:

Regarding time, when my consciousness is in an off state during dreamless sleep, time is still moving as usual as I see it, and the world exists even then. The material world is simply information in the now, and consciousness is a feedback loop between the infinite unmanifested and the manifested reality. The manifested information is always totally indestructible and goes on expanding.

I'm not sure if I got it right but since time is mental, space doesn't unfold by itself while your consciousness is in an off state. So when you open your eyes or keep on dreaming, it looks like time has passed by but it is just information processed differently?

1 hour ago, Anderz said:

As a side note, even the reality we experience can vary a lot, including things such as out-of-body experiences (OBEs) and even astral travel and psychedelic realities etc. It's all information in the now being experienced in consciousness. And for example real OBEs are consciousness actually manifesting in the vacuum energy of "empty" space, and not some mere hallucinations in the brain.

Interesting, though I've never had OBEs. Do you draw any distinction between normal reality/consciousness and these altered states of consciousness?

1 hour ago, Anderz said:

Time is an ever increase of indestructible information. Physicist Leonard Susskind's explanation of how information is indestructible and how entropy is hidden information can be compared to a computer simulation. To simulate a motionless bottle on a table is much easier than simulating the bottle breaking, which looks like more entropy but in reality is more complexity. So the information Susskind is talking about is at the fundamental level of reality. Actual destruction is impossible in reality.

That's why I believe it's definitely possible to access any information across any spacetime reality via mind. Some people call it Akashic records.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Member

[Anderz]

@Member Time and mind are one, and also all minds are one! So when I am in deep dreamless sleep, it's only my localized consciousness that is in an off state. By mind I actually mean all manifested information, and that information exists on its own, and consciousness is activated where the complexity level gets high enough.

So all 7 billion people on the planet share the same mind and each individualized consciousness can be on or off. And let's say as an example that a person is having a real OBE, then his or her consciousness is active not in the brain, but in the vacuum energy of the location of space where the OBE is experienced. And I read somewhere that real OBEs have actually been proven, with people reporting seeing things not visible from the position of the body, such as reading the text on a light armature label from a position at the ceiling (in a hospital during an operation if I remember correctly).

Edited July 2, 2020 by Anderz

[LastThursday]

@Anderz do you think it is possible that the personal experience of time can be discontinuous or glitchy? If the localized consciousness is "off" isn't that the same as the "on" state experiencing a discontinuity? Is information more primary than consciousness?

Also, do you actually know if anyone else has a mind or is conscious? I grant you it's probably true, but can you really know for certain? Is there a way to find out?

Also what is the connection between the physical retina and structure of an eyeball and the conscious perception of sight? How is it possible to have an OBE and be able to "see" without the apparatus of the eye? What exactly is doing the seeing? Do congenitally blind people ever report having "seeing" episodes when experiencing an OBE?

Dunno, just questions that sprang to mind, no need to answer particulary, just thowing it out there.

[Anderz]

@LastThursday In the Integrated information theory (IIT) there is a value Phi that determines the level of consciousness of a system. My experience is that consciousness can be more or less clear but also that there is a certain threshold where my consciousness is active and when it enters an off state. And I have occasionally experienced my consciousness waking up suddenly so it's a discontinuous on/off state.

In IIT any system with integrated information is conscious but I believe they consider human consciousness to be dependent on the brain and the nervous system. My explanation of OBEs is that the vacuum energy in space can become structured in such way that localized consciousness is activated outside the brain.

Information is primary and consciousness a result of the information reaching a high enough level of complexity and integration (high enough Phi value). The neural activity in the brain is correlated with the information but it's the fundamental information that determines consciousness. So for example in a real OBE the person can actually see the world without physical eyes, which like the brain are correlated with the conscious experience of the world, but physical eyes are not the only possible way to have sight.

In IIT even a video camera can be conscious if it has integrated information. I don't think a video camera has enough information integration to be conscious. The experience of sight depends on consciousness being active. Otherwise there is no experience. A video camera doesn't have experiences. And consciousness is a state, not some substance of field or anything like that.

Like IIT says, consciousness is a whole undivided state, so I cannot determine from my own individual consciousness whether other people or animals are conscious or not, but from a nondual perspective all things are one, and I expect that humanity may soon enter a collective consciousness where true intersubjective experiences become possible.

[Anderz]

I don't think of or experience time as a dimension. And the fundamental information of reality is not made of separate bits. Fundamental reality is a no-thing, a platonic form that just is. The fundamental information is an interconnected whole, like Indra's net:

Quote

"Indra's net (also called Indra's jewels or Indra's pearls, Sanskrit Indrajāla) is a metaphor used to illustrate the concepts of Śūnyatā (emptiness),[1] pratītyasamutpāda (dependent origination),[2] and interpenetration[3] in Buddhist philosophy. ...

Francis H. Cook describes Indra's net thus:

Far away in the heavenly abode of the great god Indra, there is a wonderful net which has been hung by some cunning artificer in such a manner that it stretches out infinitely in all directions. In accordance with the extravagant tastes of deities, the artificer has hung a single glittering jewel in each "eye" of the net, and since the net itself is infinite in dimension, the jewels are infinite in number. There hang the jewels, glittering "like" stars in the first magnitude, a wonderful sight to behold. If we now arbitrarily select one of these jewels for inspection and look closely at it, we will discover that in its polished surface there are reflected all the other jewels in the net, infinite in number. Not only that, but each of the jewels reflected in this one jewel is also reflecting all the other jewels, so that there is an infinite reflecting process occurring." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indra's_net

 

[Member]

8 hours ago, Anderz said:

I don't think of or experience time as a dimension. And the fundamental information of reality is not made of separate bits. Fundamental reality is a no-thing, a platonic form that just is. The fundamental information is an interconnected whole, like Indra's net:

It reminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubic_honeycomb

I had a dream with this

[Leo Gura]

18 hours ago, Anderz said:

Why hasn't humanity yet a clear understanding of time?

Einstein had a pretty clear understanding of it.

Oh, BTW, on high enough doses of 5-MeO-DMT I was able to speed up "time". Like walking in 1.25x speed. Similar to how you can speed up a YT video.

[Anderz]

@Leo Gura Julian Barbour has studied Einstein's papers and letters carefully and concluded: "It's quite a strange gap in his [Einstein's] thinking, and I don't think he really did have a particularly good idea of what a clock actually is."

And Barbour's idea of a timeless universe is based on "Nows" which as I understand it contain sequences of time packed into single units. A 1.25x speed up of time is possible within such Now I guess depending on how it is experienced subjectively. Some people have experienced time slowing down when entering a zone state, which may be a similar experience in the opposite direction. Depending on how the Now is "sampled" subjectively it gives the experience of faster or slower time.

Quote

"He argues that we have no evidence of the past other than our memory of it, and no evidence of the future other than our belief in it. "Change merely creates an illusion of time, with each individual moment existing in its own right, complete and whole." He calls these moments "Nows". It is all an illusion: there is no motion and no change. He argues that the illusion of time is what we interpret through what he calls "time capsules", which are "any fixed pattern that creates or encodes the appearance of motion, change or history"." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Barbour

 

[Rilles]

40 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Einstein had a pretty clear understanding of it.

Oh, BTW, on high enough doses of 5-MeO-DMT I was able to speed up "time". Like walking in 1.25x speed. Similar to how you can speed up a YT video.

That is so trippy... really makes you wonder what the hell time even means... In your reality time has moved forward... Yet in my reality it hasnt... Yet were living in the same now of reality... daaaa fucccck

[Leo Gura]

37 minutes ago, Rilles said:

That is so trippy... really makes you wonder what the hell time even means... In your reality time has moved forward... Yet in my reality it hasnt... Yet were living in the same now of reality... daaaa fucccck

It's all relative.

[Anderz]

I don't think of time as an illusion, but Julian Barbour has a point in how we measure time is only a measure of relative motion. How to objectively quantify the motion of time?! Is time flowing one second per second? That makes the unit [second/second] = 1? Haha.

Nor can there as I see it be a continuous flow of time. So there is a definite finite number of discrete steps from the beginning of time to the present moment. A hideously astronomically large number, but still finite.