Solipsism is True!

[Galyna]

@Gesundheit Solipsism is the philosophical concept that asserts that only one mind is real in existence because you can not prove otherwise; and the external world and other minds cannot be verified as well, therefore might not be even real.

[abrakamowse]

35 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

What what whaaaaaat?  
 

Astrology!?! Use it or lose it folks  

Astrology for solipsists... 

?

[Dodo]

5 hours ago, Someone here said:

Yes but you said in the dream reality you are the only one with internal self awareness while others are just figments of your mind (you can't know that for sure but hey..) while in the waking state you are aware and other people are also aware.. Now can you tell me are you in the waking state or the dreaming state at this moment and how do you know that and can you tell me how do you know other people are also aware in the waking state? 

 

I didn't see this earlier. The reason for the belief that others inside my dream don't have subjective experience is because they were created at the moment when I began the dream. They did not have lives before I went to bed and began dreaming. 

Nobody ever inside my dream has claimed lucidity or awareness, other than myself. However in the waking reality, all characters which I meet imply lucidity of their own and, in a way, that they exist even when I am not in their field of perception. 

For example that dream dog that was chasing me that one dream did not have a subjective experience of chasing me. That would require a dreamer on the other side, who is dreaming to be this dog and is the aware space in which that dream happens, but is dreaming it from the point of view of the dog. But that would then require every other character to have that as well. And since I can turn this dog or any other character into a candy inside that dream, that means that even inanimate objects then require a dreamer in order to have a subjective experience as that inside the dream. Do you think lollipops dream? 

But if a dog chased me in real life I will know that the dog has a subjective experience of its own and it is a real creature, not a figment of my imagination. For one, I will know it, because I will not be able to simply wish it away or just switch my dream or defeat it with superhuman strength which I can use inside an actual dream. If it can go poof just by me wishing it, it probably doesn't have a subjective experience. I know it doesn't sound very scientific, but I think it's the best way to explain this belief. 

 

How do I know I am now in the waking state or sleeping state?

When you want to know that, you just have to look for the logic. If it's not there, you're in a dream. If there is logic, then it is the waking state. What do I mean by logic? That part of reality which does not allow you to fly at will without the necessary gear, which you can do inside a dream. In the waking reality you have to adhere to a specific set of rules and also there is much stronger continuity. There are also consequences of actions which you may pay for later on.

In a dream you can murder everyone in cold blood and the next thing you know you're being crowned the King of Peace by an alien race of giant ants. That's how you know you're in a dream. If you end up in a high security prison for 40+ years, then you know you're in the waking state. youknowwhatImean

How do you know other people are also aware in the waking state? 

How do we know? Easy!! Can I ask you, are you aware? The way you answer this question and the way I answer this question, if we are both honest, will be the same or very similar. Also if you are asked to describe this awareness, there will be striking similarities. It will turn out, me and you can both write about this separately, then compare notes and see that we are having the same experience of consciousness.   

This question has been asked to many inside this "waking dream" and I can tell you, you cannot get the answers from someone who is not aware. Ask someone in your actual dream that and you will see what the difference is. Try to ask Siri too. Or google. Google "knows" a lot of things, but it doesn't know shit about being aware and will never know.

 

But really, after saying all this, it is not even important to know whether this is "waking" or "dream" reality. Those are just labels and reality could be either. I am not denying this could be a dream with logic. But whether it is a dream or not, there is something which is always real, in any state. The dream might not be real, but the you that experiences the dream IS real. 

 

Did you dream your dream last night? Yes

Was it the same you that is on the forum right now? Yes

Those two events happened in a different state, but there is something there which unifies both. That's the reality, not the waking or dream by themselves. I hope my answers are sufficient. 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Dodo

[Gesundheit]

@Galyna So, it's merely a philosophical concept? Well, that's a relief!

Plus, is one's mind proven to be real? How come? I haven't even once seen a mind, whether mine or not.

[DrewNows]

2 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

Astrology for solipsists... 

?

Oh neo... 

Just look into the sun  

maybe then you’ll catch on 

truth behold 

you’re in for a storm 

[Galyna]

1 minute ago, Gesundheit said:

So, it's merely a philosophical concept?

It is...everything is a philosophical concept if you can not verify it empirically, unless you have a direct experience of something. 

3 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

I haven't even once seen a mind, whether mine or not.

You have not seen it but you have experienced it. So we are discussing here if there is an external reality with other minds. 

 

[abrakamowse]

8 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

Oh neo... 

Just look into the sun  

maybe then you’ll catch on 

truth behold 

you’re in for a storm 

hehehe... I know!

[Gesundheit]

@Galyna I hope what you just said is also merely a philosophical concept cause otherwise things might get problematic for me. The best thing about philosophy is that it's not real.

[Galyna]

17 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

I hope what you just said is also merely a philosophical concept

Treat everything that you can't verify as a philosophical concept, no more, no less! The whole entire life is predicated upon concepts/beliefs that are not real, but mind apriori holds them as such . Question everything you've ever heard or learned. This is the only way out to escape the prison of conceptual fallacy.  

17 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

cause otherwise things might get problematic for me.

could you elaborate please, what is it exactly that problematic for you?

Edited July 3, 2020 by Galyna

[Gesundheit]

@Galyna I don't feel prisoned. The only thing that I think can make me prisoned is trying to verify every philosophical concept that exists. It's like trying to win a video game, that is completely optional and absolutely unnecessary. You guys make it seem like it's a must. This makes life feel like a prison when it didn't do earlier.

[Galyna]

1 minute ago, Gesundheit said:

The only thing that I think can make me prisoned is trying to verify every philosophical concept

Ultimately, by seeing the erroneous nature of our core beliefs should set you free. 

 

4 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

It's like trying to win a video game, that is completely optional and absolutely unnecessary.

I would argue that. It all boils down to your goals and values in life. 

5 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

You guys make it seem like it's a must.

Nah, guys here are just very philosophical by nature, they like to share ideas that can lead them to insights. It is not a must, treat it as a platform to gain some knowledge, be careful though, because you will hear the opinions that will contradict by nature. 

7 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

This makes life feel like a prison when it didn't do earlier.

because it is concept built upon concept....it is confusing, sorry about it.

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Dodo said:

I didn't see this earlier. The reason for the belief that others inside my dream don't have subjective experience is because they were created at the moment when I began the dream. They did not have lives before I went to bed and began dreaming. 

That's assuming that you already know what is the dream and how it gets created. This is just an assumption that you made with no ground to support it. 

Nobody ever inside my dream has claimed lucidity or awareness, other than myself.

Really?  In my dreams there is a lot of people who tell me  " I can see you" for example. 

However in the waking reality, all characters which I meet imply lucidity of their own and, in a way, that they exist even when I am not in their field of perception. 

How do you know?  Again all that is just groundless assumptions. Ofcourse everyone in this planet claim to be self-aware.. But does that prove that they are actually self aware?   Ofcourse not. I can program a robot to respond to you and to tell you that it's self-aware when in facts it's not (that already exists btw). 

For example that dream dog that was chasing me that one dream did not have a subjective experience of chasing me. That would require a dreamer on the other side, who is dreaming to be this dog and is the aware space in which that dream happens, but is dreaming it from the point of view of the dog. But that would then require every other character to have that as well. And since I can turn this dog or any other character into a candy inside that dream, that means that even inanimate objects then require a dreamer in order to have a subjective experience as that inside the dream.

Once again the same fallacy.. All that is assuming that you already know what the dream is and what the waking world is and that you are in the waking world right now when in fact you do NOT know that.. When you are actually dreaming you are 100% buying it and believing that everyone around you are real persons not mere puppets of your own mind. 

Do you think lollipops dream? 

Idk. Ask the lollipop lol. 

But if a dog chased me in real life I will know that the dog has a subjective experience of its own and it is a real creature, not a figment of my imagination. For one, I will know it, because I will not be able to simply wish it away or just switch my dream or defeat it with superhuman strength which I can use inside an actual dream. NO.  Again that has nothing to do with whether the dog is aware or not. That's just what you assume. 

 

Quote

If it can go poof just by me wishing it, it probably doesn't have a subjective experience. I know it doesn't sound very scientific, but I think it's the best way to explain this belief. 

Why?  What's the logical necessity here? 

 

 

How do I know I am now in the waking state or sleeping state?

When you want to know that, you just have to look for the logic. If it's not there, you're in a dream. If there is logic, then it is the waking state. What do I mean by logic? That part of reality which does not allow you to fly at will without the necessary gear, which you can do inside a dream. In the waking reality you have to adhere to a specific set of rules and also there is much stronger continuity. There are also consequences of actions which you may pay for later on.

In a dream you can murder everyone in cold blood and the next thing you know you're being crowned the King of Peace by an alien race of giant ants. That's how you know you're in a dream. If you end up in a high security prison for 40+ years, then you know you're in the waking state. youknowwhatImean

And why you don't use this method to verify that you are dreaming when you are dreaming?  If it's so easy like that why you get fooled and will continue to get fooled for the rest of your life every day when you are dreaming thinking that those dreams are real (as you are living them)? 

 

Quote

How do you know other people are also aware in the waking state? 

How do we know? Easy!! Can I ask you, are you aware? The way you answer this question and the way I answer this question, if we are both honest, will be the same or very similar. Also if you are asked to describe this awareness, there will be striking similarities. It will turn out, me and you can both write about this separately, then compare notes and see that we are having the same experience of consciousness.   

This question has been asked to many inside this "waking dream" and I can tell you, you cannot get the answers from someone who is not aware. Ask someone in your actual dream that and you will see what the difference is. Try to ask Siri too. Or google. Google "knows" a lot of things, but it doesn't know shit about being aware and will never know.

Llol.  So your evidence that I'm aware is that I say that I'm aware??  By the same logic you can take my word for anything I say just because I simply said it?!! 

But really, after saying all this, it is not even important to know whether this is "waking" or "dream" reality. Those are just labels and reality could be either. I am not denying this could be a dream with logic. But whether it is a dream or not, there is something which is always real, in any state. The dream might not be real, but the you that experiences the dream IS real. 

I agree. 

Did you dream your dream last night? Yes

Was it the same you that is on the forum right now? Yes

Those two events happened in a different state, but there is something there which unifies both. That's the reality, not the waking or dream by themselves. I hope my answers are sufficient. 

6 hours ago, justfortoday said:

 

7 hours ago, zeroISinfinity said:

 

 

Edited July 4, 2020 by Someone here

[Someone here]

35 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

@Galyna . The best thing about philosophy is that it's not real.

Nothing is further from the truth.  When you are standing there wondering should I take a shit and then  go to work or should I go to work and then take a shit.. That's you doing philosophy. 

Edited July 4, 2020 by Someone here

[Galyna]

8 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Nothing is further from the truth.

Actually he is right, what is philosophy? A bunch of concepts link together into holistic knowledge? 

Does it make so" important"? Do we need to add more abstract knowledge to be closer to the Truth?

 I doubt it and I don't thinks so... (pretend that I said this with the same facial expression as that Kevin from "Home Along" movie when talking to a hotel manager) 

Edited July 4, 2020 by Galyna

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, Galyna said:

what is philosophy? 

 It is What you just did in the comment above. Even when you are attacking philosophy as being useless you are actually philosophizing. You are philosophizing about why philosophy is useless.   

 

[Galyna]

As much comments I've left here for the past 24h I will soon take the ownership of this thread 

[Galyna]

Just now, Someone here said:

You are philosophizing about why philosophy is useless.

And as a result we have not moved any further with our couch philosophy? Have you noticed this? 

Have you noticed any progress for the past month? Honestly?

[Gesundheit]

@Someone here I don't do philosophy. It's silly.

[Galyna]

4 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

I don't do philosophy. It's silly.

You do, you just do not realize it.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Galyna

[Gesundheit]

@Galyna I don't. And you can't disprove it.