Is Time Fundamental?

[Member]

59 minutes ago, JayG84 said:

This is what I was implying. They are all One.

You = everything = infinite consciousness.

59 minutes ago, JayG84 said:

I didn't say that I was the character or the story.

But you said this:

3 hours ago, JayG84 said:

But there is still a fundamental nature of the act of "changing the channels". Conciousness is infinite, without a doubt. I'm not saying this is happening within reality.

Where more exactly do you think this fundamental nature is so that the act of changing the channels occurs? If you're not the character, nor the story, then within whose reality or where does the infinite consciousness happen?

59 minutes ago, JayG84 said:

Infinite Consciousness = Mind. Therefore, The Mechanism = Infinite Consciousness, or an aspect of. Just like Intelligence = Mind = Consciousness = Mechanism.

How does your "body" change your reality? What is this "energy" you refer to?

No, infinite consciousness is everything, including the mind. Life force or energy/mind/body is just a vehicle to travel through spacetime - body alone (remote control) cannot change the spacetime reality channel without the aid of mind (mechanism) and life force energy (take for example the electrical activity in the brain). Therefore, they are connected & function as a whole and there's no need to treat them as being separate.

You see, life has its own logic and wisdom if you pay close attention. All the mysterious workings of the Universe are in plain sight for an open mind.

59 minutes ago, JayG84 said:

What is "spacetime" besides the scientific definition we've been told? Are you talking relatively? Are you saying that Mind/Body/Energy/Awareness is all consciousness, because I agree with you on that point. But I'm not saying that Conciousness controls Time. I'm questioning if Time and Consciousness are the same. Which is what you are saying I think...lol 

From my POV, time and consciousness are the same. As for the spacetime, we tend to associate it with an objective reality but I think of it as being just a different reality experienced from a relative POV, which is also the absolute. Imo there is no common ground for what reality is.

59 minutes ago, JayG84 said:

Change is the Mechanism.

There is no time without a mind to perceive all these changes in the infinite animation.

[JayG84]

9 minutes ago, Member said:

4 hours ago, JayG84 said:

this is happening within reality.

Where more exactly do you think this fundamental nature is so that the act of changing the channels occurs? If you're not the character, nor the story, then within whose reality or where does the infinite consciousness happen?

When I speak of "happening within reality", I speak of the relative. Infinite Consciousness happens at the Absolute Infinite level. I think that's all anyone ever does on this message board is confuse the relative and the infinite. We are all saying the same thing but you aren't assuming I'm speak from the Absolute perspective. 

My original question was just meant to make people re-question the notion of Time as a concept that can be viewed from the Absolute. I'm saying exactly this:

18 minutes ago, Member said:

From my POV, time and consciousness are the same

And

20 minutes ago, Member said:

No, infinite consciousness is everything, including the mind

We don't disagree. You're just assuming that I'm speaking from a relative egoic form.

23 minutes ago, Member said:

As for the spacetime, we tend to associate it with an objective reality but I think of it as being just a different reality experienced from a relative POV, which is also the absolute.

Agreed, "objective reality time" is relative. I never said otherwise, but that's not what I'm talking about. But then you said:

25 minutes ago, Member said:

There is no time without a mind to perceive all these changes in the infinite animation.

Which is also Relative time. 

Nevermind man. It's all good. 2 sides of the same coin.

✌️

[Forestluv]

Notice that with the thought “There is/are. . . .”, comes creation of concepts, ideas, imagery etc. A mind can immerse itself into that which is created. . . It can also be insightful to observe the actual creation process itself arising.

[Member]

@JayG84 I can see that there's a confusion about what relative/absolute reality is. Maybe because infinite consciousness is often mistaken for objective reality to which some just attribute a fancy name such as infinite consciousness, absolute truth, it, this or that etc. What I'm saying is more extreme.

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, JayG84 said:

I see what you did there ?

Hey, not everybody has time for this stuff. ? Meditation, going and meeting the wizard, etc. Busy world, limited time. So little to do and forever to do it. 

[JayG84]

2 hours ago, Nahm said:

Hey, not everybody has time for this stuff. ? Meditation, going and meeting the wizard, etc. Busy world, limited time. So little to do and forever to do it. 

I appreciate you man ?

[Nahm]

@JayG84 Appreciate you man ?? 

[upstream]

@JayG84 "If Time vanished how could anything remain?" - This is a very underrated question IMO (and great job for asking it!). Along similar lines of thinking, I've asked myself the following two questions many times before and have compared and contrasted my answers to them to help myself develop a better understanding of what might more fundamental/true (ie consciousness versus time):

#1. Can consciousness exist without time?

#2. Can time exist without consciousness?

#1 seems possible to me, and also more likely than #2 (if I were forced to pick between #1 or #2 as being more true/fundamental), because I can imagine everything (the total collapse of all conceivable dualities into a uniform substrate/essence/being/intelligence - including all possible sensations, frames of time, dimensions, realties, etc) existing in a single moment. However, a counterargument here could be that maybe this ISN'T possible to imagine without any time whatsoever, because there is SOME amount of time required (even if it's an infinitesimally small amount) to imagine such a nondual/infinite substrate/substance/essence/intelligence that IS all of these things. I'm not sure, but it's always good to play devil's advocate.

#2 seems mostly implausible to me. I don't know how time could exist without something (consciousness) to experience/witness it. I could see time and consciousness existing simultaneously though (this seems consistent with oneness/nonduality).

But again, to get back to your original question and close the loop here (pun intended), what does consciousness with ZERO time look like???

Does consciousness even exist with no time whatsoever? If 'yes, then would god consciousness experience infinite possibilities in a true time-less state? If 'no,' then would something like true 'nonexistence' (not to be confused with formlessness/nothingness) be possible if the converse were true and literally everything disappeared because there was no time for anything to exist or be experienced in the first place?

I have a lurking suspicion that there is more to the concept of 'nonexistence' (or something like it, if you want to argue that nonexistence can't exist because it directly contradicts itself). I know most people on this forum disagrees with this possibility, but I think it's worth investigating this further to see if there's yet another veil hiding key info on what something like 'nonexistence' might look like and how that could fit into total nonduality/infinity.  

[JayG84]

@upstream

Great questions. ? I'm not sure of the answers either, but I'm trying to keep an open mind to the possiblilities of Time being essential. I used to just dismiss it as illusory, which is still true relatively, but now my thesis is that Consciousness and Time can't exist without each other from the absolute perspective. 

You said something bang on here:

2 hours ago, upstream said:

I can imagine everything (the total collapse of all conceivable dualities into a uniform substrate/essence/being/intelligence - including all possible sensations, frames of time, dimensions, realties, etc) existing in a single moment.

I think this is the missing link. That all dualities aren't just illusions, they're collapsable. Picture all these "frames of time" as a wave function (sine wave), jumping from one "reality" or "dimension" to another, or "creating", at a near infinite frequency. All Time in each dimension exists in a single Instant, a singularity, the smallest unit of Time possible, infinitely small but still Time, which cannot be perceived by anything that is not pure infinite consciousness or awareness. For any limited beings perception to occur, there has to be interaction between the infinite realities and dimensions, the rate at which this occurs is what we call "Relative" Time. Because it is relative to the Instant. But this does not mean that Time doesn't exist right? It just means that it's as infinite as Consciousness itself.

3 hours ago, upstream said:

Does consciousness even exist with no time whatsoever? If 'yes, then would god consciousness experience infinite possibilities in a true time-less state?

God experiences infinite possibilities in a single Instant. Which is to say that it's an infinitely small unit of Time.

3 hours ago, upstream said:

If 'no,' then would something like true 'nonexistence' (not to be confused with formlessness/nothingness) be possible if the converse were true and literally everything disappeared because there was no time for anything to exist or be experienced in the first place?

Nonexistance, by definition, can't exist. Everything collapses into infinity. There is a literal Nothing outside of Infinity. Which is Everythingness and Anythingness.

This is my understanding at this point of it anyways. ?