Other people don't exist

[Knowledge]

When did you realize this truth?

People only exist while you're looking at them, the moment they're outside of the limited range of perception, they cease to exist.

You might see that same person a week later and he might tell you about how his week went, but all of that is fiction, because the moment they step out of your range of perception they cease to exist.

Which lead me to the conclusion that EVEN within the range of perception, no one exists, it's pure emptiness.

[Someone here]

Take it as a general rule.. Anything you say that "it" doesn't exist.. In fact it does exist precisely because you are desperately trying to deny" it's" existence more than anything else. Because if it's so clear that "it" doesn't exist.. You won't need to negate it's existence. What is the "it" that you are bulidling your case against? .. Something that doesn't exist?.. So why there is a need to say that it doesn't exist?!!!!    You don't need to say that aliens don't exist! 

You are saying that there is only you??? 

 Got news for ya.. I'm real. I exist also. 

Try later. 

Edited June 27, 2020 by Someone here

[Galyna]

Here we go again ?

[Itsokimok]

I'm nowhere near this stage, but I find this intriguing. @Knowledge how would you explain that person showing up next week and telling you how their week went then? Why is there that consistency and sense of continuity and logic? I'm very curious. 

So far, I feel like all I know of existence is my consciousness. That's the only thing I know for sure. But other people seem very real. I'm afraid of them, I love them, I hate them, I find them interesting... I don't know for sure they exist but I feel as if they exist. I have thoughts and emotions about them and there's this continuity and logic that I asked you about. 

[Sempiternity]

5 hours ago, Someone here said:

Got news for ya.. I'm real. I exist also. 

That's exactly what an imagined character in ones dream would say.

Edited June 27, 2020 by Jed Vassallo

[allislove]

@Knowledge 

There are few common traps on spiritual journey:

• solipsism (Only me exists, others do not)
• come&go (During non-dual experience I leave a body and come back to the body afterwards)
• giving your authority (This person is more awake than me, I should believe him more than myself)

 

Edited June 27, 2020 by dimitri

[allislove]

@zeroISinfinity Truth is just too good to be true 

Edited June 27, 2020 by dimitri

[Javfly33]

They don't exist but they could exist

[justfortoday]

4 hours ago, zeroISinfinity said:

My dog gives me ideas. 

Nice edit. Saw that 

[traveler]

12 hours ago, Knowledge said:

Which lead me to the conclusion that EVEN within the range of perception, no one exists, it's pure emptiness.

Exactly! ?

It is boundless energy appearing contracted, with that contraction the world and the person appears. The whole world is created out of contracted energy, the ego/person/individual IS that contracted energy. The person will never realize how contracted it is, until it falls away or the contraction has come into consciousness. There is absolutely nothing wrong and no intention for the contraction to go away, it is the experiencer or withholder of the contraction that seeks its disappearance. That is the loop of maya, you seek the disappearance of an illusory experience, it is not actually there. The contracted energy IS boundless energy, it is not wrong or supposed to go away. There is nothing for the individual to do, nor does it have free will to, this will be clear when the contracted energy begins to unravel.

[WaveInTheOcean]

12 hours ago, Knowledge said:

When did you realize this truth?

People only exist while you're looking at them, the moment they're outside of the limited range of perception, they cease to exist.

You might see that same person a week later and he might tell you about how his week went, but all of that is fiction, because the moment they step out of your range of perception they cease to exist.

Which lead me to the conclusion that EVEN within the range of perception, no one exists, it's pure emptiness.

True enough. Realize that you as a person don't exist either. You act one way with your family, one way with your date, one way at work, one way with your best friend. It's all an act, all play, you see? 

Many masks. 

Now the next question for you should be: who's playing? who sees that form is emptiness? Who sees that persons are illusory? Who can know/experience anything at all?

What is true love?

[gswva]

37 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

What is true love?

I don't know. I think I got it upside down. I just wanted to understand how to not hurt myself or to not let "someone else" get hurt. So I keep imagining myself being hurt thinking that "it's just me, it's fine". But who am I?

What is evil anyway? Making up stories about its theoretical existence and believing them to be true? "I hate myself for being able to cause harm, so I hurt myself even more to understand how to prevent it from even happening in the first place." Am I just stupid or there is nothing to understand?

 

[WaveInTheOcean]

Evil is relatively speaking the opposite of goodness. 

However, ultimately speaking, evil/good is one and the same thing. You can't have one without the other.

Imagine a world where people only did 100% good things all the time. How could anyone then know that they were good? If you don't have something to contrast yourself with, you don't know yourself either.

The dynamic between God and Ego/The Devil is exactly the same.

God = Ego

God = The Devil

Love = Hate

zero difference. It is all Oneness/Absolute.

Don't hate yourself. Love yourself. Be as honest as possible with yourself. Acknowledge your shadow sides, e.g. that you are capable of causing harm, and that you maybe sometimes even get such impulses in certain situations.

You are not stupid. There are infinite things to understand. Understanding is good. Love = Understanding. 

Only that which you become conscious of can be transcended/dissolved.

Only that which is loved is understood clearly.

Try to be a good human being. Of course! But don't judge yourself either if you fail along the way. Because that is ultimatley GOOD too!

All that is happening in your life and in everyone's life is - ultimately - happenings of Love/God. Even that you deem 'bad' is happening for a very precise intelligent reason: to develop you. To test your ability to love despite of adversity.

Life exists cos God wants to test herself. How loving can I be? Let's see! 1, 2, 3 blast offfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

[gswva]

30 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

Love = Hate

This one is hard stuck on me. So basically, God is imagining every possible devils in order to find the perfect answers to anything that could possibly ever happen to it?

To be honest, I feel like we are desperate machines trying to find the "best" thing that could be done, but if good and bad are the same thing, then what are we even trying to do? Why did it have to be so complicated? Personally, I have a hard time giving up the idea that "others" exist because then what would be the point of trying hard to do anything? Is it all meaningless?

I hate myself for writing nonsensical posts about God, but I would hate myself even more if I didn't try to understand it. Is it even evil to talk about spirituality with other ideas of "You"? 

[WaveInTheOcean]

"This one is hard stuck on me. So basically, God is imagining every possible devils in order to find the perfect answers to anything that could possibly ever happen to it?"

very well put. Yes, I'd say you could say that. The 2nd world water and Hitler was a perfect devil in the sense that it required enomours amounts of love/consciousness to get out of it and now prevent it from ever happening again.

"To be honest, I feel like we are desperate machines trying to find the "best" thing that could be done, but if good and bad are the same thing, then what are we even trying to do? Why did it have to be so complicated? Personally, I have a hard time giving up the idea that "others" exist because then what would be the point of trying hard to do anything? Is it all meaningless?"

If you feel like we are desparate machines trying to find the optimal solution for all our problems, then that is what is true for you. That's your reality. And I can say it was my reality as well for quite some time. Ultimately it's perfectly fine to have that view; it has its pros and cons, like every other worldview has.

Awakening/LIberation/Enligtenment is just a letting go of all world views.

Anyway, see, for you, good and bad are not the same thing (emotionally at least), so don't fool yourself now. The essence of emotions/raw feelings is always what is most true for you. Don't ignore your emotions. Sure, what the emotions then 'tell you' with words is often not-true, but the raw qualia-sensation of emotions; don't run away from them, they are what is the case in the now. Immerse yourself in the now when you meditate. Let go of yourself, accept all thoughts and emotions. No effort is needed. Just relax.

Anyway, "Why did it have to be so complicated? " cos when you then "finally get there" it is 1000090076234515x more rewarding than if it had been easy, you see?:-) Just like everything else in life. To finally finish your education ONLY FEELS NICE exactly because it took you 10-20 years to finish it! If it took an hour to finish a whole 10-year-worth of education, it would be the same as watching a TV-series; not rly rewarding.

"Personally, I have a hard time giving up the idea that "others" exist because then what would be the point of trying hard to do anything? Is it all meaningless?"

Don't give up the idea. Let it be. Let everything be exactly as it is. It is only when you accept and love every aspect of yourself, that you can truely transcend yourself. Don't force anything to happen. When Leo says meaningless words such as "others dont exist" dont believe him. The only "good thing" you can take away from such a Leo video is that it can help you opening your mind to infinite possibilities. I.e. it can help you make you more open. But don't believe anyone. Follow your own heart and intuition.

No, it is not all meaningless. Relax, there is infinite wisdom, infinite love behind the curtains of your dream-life. Relax! i love you <3

[gswva]

@WaveInTheOcean Thank you. You replies are eye-opening. My feelings are plain and simple, I hate myself for having you waste your time on me. I hate myself for not being able to write a proper answer. I hate myself for making it seems like I'm trying "too" hard to understand what even is "evil". I hate myself for even taking anything seriously, maybe that's evil? I just hate myself so much. My self-esteem is so low that I wouldn't ever dare ask for help in a clear way, and end up hijacking threads or disguising as "others" in order to understand what am I even trying to understand. I'm the opposite of what Love should be. Yet I don't recall doing anything realistically bad. I'm really a Frankenstein abomination mind-stretching worldviews around, only good at perfecting failure. I'm just so intellectually stupid, it doesn't even make sense anymore. Then why did I think I was alone in my struggle? Aren't we just alienating ourselves in order to understand ourselves? Eventually when I thought I finally got "Love", I just end up losing myself in another layer of misunderstandings. Is art evil? Aren't we just finding ways to lure ourselves into more self-hatred? What is happening here...

I love you, but I hate myself. Maybe you're right, I should just relax. God is safe and comfy forever, after all. 

"but what if.... evil...." Ahhh

Your point of view that I shouldn't try to reject the idea that "others don't exist" is inspiring. If reality is imaginary, then what is real? What are those words that describe it to begin with? I just don't want to be alone. Maybe I just don't want to face my own self-hatred, or maybe I don't want to accept it being all meaningless. I can't tell.

Edited June 27, 2020 by gswva

[WaveInTheOcean]

1 hour ago, gswva said:

@WaveInTheOcean Thank you. You replies are eye-opening. My feelings are plain and simple, I hate myself for having you waste your time on me. I hate myself for not being able to write a proper answer. I hate myself for making it seems like I'm trying "too" hard to understand what even is "evil". I hate myself for even taking anything seriously, maybe that's evil? I just hate myself so much. My self-esteem is so low that I wouldn't ever dare ask for help in a clear way, and end up hijacking threads or disguising as "others" in order to understand what am I even trying to understand. I'm the opposite of what Love should be. Yet I don't recall doing anything realistically bad. I'm really a Frankenstein abomination mind-stretching worldviews around, only good at perfecting failure. I'm just so intellectually stupid, it doesn't even make sense anymore. Then why did I think I was alone in my struggle? Aren't we just alienating ourselves in order to understand ourselves? Eventually when I thought I finally got "Love", I just end up losing myself in another layer of misunderstandings. Is art evil? Aren't we just finding ways to lure ourselves into more self-hatred? What is happening here...

I love you, but I hate myself. Maybe you're right, I should just relax. God is safe and comfy forever, after all. 

"but what if.... evil...." Ahhh

Your point of view that I shouldn't try to reject the idea that "others don't exist" is inspiring. If reality is imaginary, then what is real? What are those words that describe it to begin with? I just don't want to be alone. Maybe I just don't want to face my own self-hatred, or maybe I don't want to accept it being all meaningless. I can't tell.

Take a walk outside, listen to some music in headphones. I can recommend the album "Dive" by Tycho. It's without lyrics, which is perfect for immersing oneself in the beauty of the present now (music always helps me get in the present, beacuse listening to music is 100% meaningless and 100% meaningful at the same time, it's the most beautiful thing).

[WaveInTheOcean]

" My self-esteem is so low that I wouldn't ever dare ask for help in a clear way"

What do you got to lose? Every time we are afraid of asking others for help it is because we believe we have something to lose. Contemplate if you actually have anything to lose by asking someone for help. (hint: you don't, it's all in your head). You should check up on Enneagram and try to found out which type you are and read up on it. I finmd Enneagram extremely useful and interesting in regards to spiritual development.

". I'm just so intellectually stupid, it doesn't even make sense anymore. "

Haha bro, no you're not. Any human being who says that he is intellectually stupid is just by the virtue of being so self-conscious automatically more intelligent than most other human beings. 

That it doesn't makes sense is perfectly fine. I've been there too. It's tough, but it will pass. Have faith in the proces.

" If reality is imaginary, then what is real?"
 

Good question. 

Form is emptiness.
Emptiness is form.

The world is Heaven.
Heaven is the world.

Nirvana is Samsara.
Samsara, Nirvana.

Non-duality 101. It's all One.

[Synchronicity]

The Buddha’s Five Truths: 

it is nothing 

it is something 

it is both 

it is neither 

it is all those simultaneously 

So technically...I just agreed with you?

[DaHonorableCourt]

Its not that others exist or not. Its just that others/self is a conceptual duality. Stop seeing it like others are not real. They are all equally you.