Leo Gura

Spiral Dynamics Stage Red Examples Mega-Thread

1,112 posts in this topic

11 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Look at what I said more carefully. I said becoming the "number one" champion. To become the number one champion in mixed martial arts, you have to defeat every opponent that crosses your path. That is analogous to stage red imperialism. The only example you mentioned that could come close to that is becoming the best athlete. You may notice that the bulk of the examples you mentioned can be explained by other motivations than becoming number one, things like purpose in the case of stage blue, and becoming the best version of yourself at stage orange etc. The theme that defines the Red "number one" is complete and unrelenting domination and submission of ALL opposition, not as a means but as an end. Not that it's impossible for people in higher stages to participate in these things, but the activity itself is still Red. Things like hunger is actually stage beige.

Depends on the mindset. You can be creator or competitor anything. 

 

"There is no Jose Aldo. You are against yourself"


Digital Minimalism: A philosophy of technology use in which you focus your online time on a small number of carefully selected and optimized activities that strongly support things you value, and then happily miss out on everything else.” - Cal Newport

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3 hours ago, Rasheed said:

Depends on the mindset. You can be creator or competitor anything. 

 

"There is no Jose Aldo. You are against yourself"

Does hunger depend on the mindset? No matter the mindset, the activity you're doing is still what it is.

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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7 hours ago, Rasheed said:

With that logic:

  • Becoming best entrepreneur is red.
  • Becoming best athlete is red
  • Becoming more conscious is red
  • Becoming more developed is red
  • Becoming master at the craft is red
  • If someone is hungry, it's red
  • If someone wants to be rich, it is red

Individualistic competition is at the core of red and orange, yet their expressions differ. There is a difference between a red-level gang member that kills others so he can be the best  vs. an orange-level basketball player that practices a lot so he can be the best. 

I would consider most UFC fighters to have a mix of red and orange. Most have orange-level desires for fame and money, yet you also need to be very physically violent to have success in the UFC. The whole point is exerting the maximum amount of violence into your opponent. 

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8 hours ago, Rasheed said:

With that logic:

  • Becoming best entrepreneur is red.
  • Becoming best athlete is red
  • Becoming more conscious is red
  • Becoming more developed is red
  • Becoming master at the craft is red
  • If someone is hungry, it's red
  • If someone wants to be rich, it is red

all of those things have a healthy amount of red in them;)

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43 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

I would consider most UFC fighters to have a mix of red and orange. Most have orange-level desires for fame and money, yet you also need to be very physically violent to have success in the UFC. The whole point is exerting the maximum amount of violence into your opponent. 

Yea, not to mention you have to enjoy the violence. I'm sure a lot of the fighters use their primal instincts to win a fight, which is different from a soccer player. A soccer player might be really passionate about winning but their primal instincts don't really come to surface because their life is not in danger. I would say primal instincts are inherently red. 

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17 minutes ago, Akemrelax said:

Yea, not to mention you have to enjoy the violence. I'm sure a lot of the fighters use their primal instincts to win a fight, which is different from a soccer player. A soccer player might be really passionate about winning but their primal instincts don't really come to surface because their life is not in danger. I would say primal instincts are inherently red. 

Here is a post-fight interview with Bellator champion Rory MacDonald. To reach this championship level, a fighter needs to have a killer instinct. When the opponent is hurt, they need to immediately brutalize him to the finish. Rory had recently begun with blue level religion. This was his first fight that he didn’t have the killer instinct to finish a wounded opponent with brutal violence. Notice how he has knocked his opponent partially unconscious, yet can’t “pull the trigger” and finish him off. His interview is very telling and beautifully shows him transitioning from red to blue.

 

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Come+and+See+%25281985%2529.jpg 

I haven't seen the movie but apparently it's a realistic/disturbing depiction of the horrors of WWII over the sort of heroic fantasy many American movies show. 

Pure red devilry and ideology 

Edited by Lyubov

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@Leo Gura At first glance, the scene seems to depict Stage-Red brutality, but reading the backstory took me by surprise quite a bit. One might think the defenseless women are being brutalized by the warriors, but it's quite the contrary. The women in the painting (the "Sabine women") are actually intervening in order to stop the fighting between the two groups - the Romans and the Sabines. And the shocking thing? It actually works, the Romans and the Sabines agree to stop fighting and live happily ever-after (lol wtf), a strange outcome considering these times were rife with barbarity.


Release me.

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Upon reflection I'm actually quite grateful to be living during our present times. Can only imagine a bit what it would be like to live through stage red times as a peasant or villager with armies coming in a doing the worst things imaginable. All things considered many of us are quite comfortable and safer than ever before and our problems seem almost miniscule to those faced by previous generations.

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When I commit myself to enlightenment and orient myself from the physical world and toward base substrate consciousness, I will still enjoy the artistic genius of anger and darkness by idealistic people flailing at lower stages of development. Quite simply, it is interesting and necessary for people to do so, and I say anybody that doesn't support it is a buffoon that doesn't like results.

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4 hours ago, John Doe said:

@Leo Gura At first glance, the scene seems to depict Stage-Red brutality, but reading the backstory took me by surprise quite a bit. One might think the defenseless women are being brutalized by the warriors, but it's quite the contrary. The women in the painting (the "Sabine women") are actually intervening in order to stop the fighting between the two groups - the Romans and the Sabines. And the shocking thing? It actually works, the Romans and the Sabines agree to stop fighting and live happily ever-after (lol wtf), a strange outcome considering these times were rife with barbarity.

Yes, of course. Which is a good metaphor for femininity stepping in to stop toxic masculinity at stage Red.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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@modmyth I remember seeing a documentary on youtube about DCD and the influence of that Bulgarian choir was mentioned. If I remember correctly she had just began learning that technique and tested it out on  The Host of Seraphim and apparently they weren't happy with the result at first and almost scratched it from the album. Which is funny considering it is their most well known track.

I had never heard the choir before so thanks for sharing that! That was really good, I will check more of that out. The influence it had on Lisa is really obvious listening to it!

Haha, I have never heard his voice being described as a darkwave/goth-ish Frank Sinatra before but that is exactly what his voice sounds like! I could see him playing Frank in a slightly twisted darkened parallel universe kinda movie :D

Zappa is great! I was also the only weirdo being into that stuff as a teenager. Of course, you also take pride in standing out at that age so I used to love wearing the famous t-shirt image of him sitting on toilet taking a crap lol. He was such a gifted musician and so ahead of his time. And seeing old interviews with him on Letterman and whatnot he came across as really clever and good dude.

There is this guy on Youtube called Smalin that does visual representations of Bach (and others) music that I have been really into lately. There are a bunch of them now but he was the pioneer and started doing stuff like this in the 70's I believe. It's really interesting to see visually how he constructed his music.

 

Edited by Esoteric

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This is not a thread about music.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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To me stage red and orange are in a way the same, with the same values with the same lies and manipulations to get in top of hierarchy, for power and success. What is the difference between them? 

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1 hour ago, Marianitozz said:

To me stage red and orange are in a way the same, with the same values with the same lies and manipulations to get in top of hierarchy, for power and success. What is the difference between them? 

There is a HUGE difference. Stage Orange is materialistic and hedonistic, but it is not ruthlessly violent, power-hungry, or impulsive. Orange is rational. Red is not.

Stage Orange is your typical bank CEO. Stage Red is a Tony Soprano or Joe Pesci from Casino. The bank CEO might manipulate within business to make some big money but he will not stab you in the throat in the process. Stage Red will.

You have to really appreciate the ruthlessness and impulsiveness of Red:

Orange people do not behave like that.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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