Spiral Dynamics Stage Red Examples Mega-Thread

[Esoteric]

@modmyth That's awesome! Aion is a great album. But I mean every album is. Within the Realm of a Dying Sun is really special to me. Brendan is amazing, very underrated indeed. I mostly resonated with songs where Lisa was at the forefront in the beginning but that quickly changed. But I mean Lisa, wow.. She channels something. I have never heard a voice like that. I love how they mix things up with soundscapes from different eras and cultures to just really well-crafted pop songs.

Yeah, Danny is an amazing drummer. But everything in Tool feels just right. You can tell they have a lot of respect for each other as musicians and for the songs in that they let everything breathe naturally and invite each other to do what is best for the song and the composition as a whole.

I have two older half-brothers, 7 and 10 years older. The younger of them was into metal and rock. Guns 'n Roses and Metallica and stuff like that. So I always had that around me growing up. The other was into Frank Zappa, Nick Cave, Bob Dylan, stuff like that. Some of which I started appreciated when I got older.

Nowadays I mostly listen to classical music. Especially Bach (which is Baroque but nowadays falls into the classical category), imo, the most accomplished musical genius and composer ever. Everything aligned just right with Bach. He had naturally gifted musical abilities, was raised in a dynasty of high-level musicians, he was very intelligent AND he was devoted to God which is very apparent in his music. It's just perfect. His violin concertos led me to other composers violin concertos like Tchaikovsky, Sibelius and Brahms which led me to their other works and on it goes

[Rasheed]

On 7/1/2020 at 10:04 AM, Akemrelax said:

Some of you are too attached to metal. 

UFC is a good example of Red.

 

UFC is not red. UFC is blue and orange. Just because women and men fight, that does not mean they are red. Guys can talk about awareness and present moment, and they can be red. Talking about UFC. This brawl is red

How can you call this guy red?

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by Rasheed

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Rasheed said:

UFC is not red. UFC is blue and orange. Just because women and men fight, that does not mean they are red. Guys can talk about awareness and present moment, and they can be red. Talking about UFC. This brawl is red

How can you call this guy red?

 

The whole idea about fighting to become the number one champion is Red at the bottom of it all.

[Rasheed]

13 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

The whole idea about fighting to become the number one champion is Red at the bottom of it all.

With that logic:

• Becoming best entrepreneur is red.
• Becoming best athlete is red
• Becoming more conscious is red
• Becoming more developed is red
• Becoming master at the craft is red
• If someone is hungry, it's red
• If someone wants to be rich, it is red

What else they can fight for? Champion gets most money. Champion inspires people. And it's all about survival. THIS IS SURVIVAL. Look at this video, Poirier talks about survival: 

 

[Carl-Richard]

36 minutes ago, Rasheed said:

With that logic:

• Becoming best entrepreneur is red.
• Becoming best athlete is red
• Becoming more conscious is red
• Becoming more developed is red
• Becoming master at the craft is red
• If someone is hungry, it's red
• If someone wants to be rich, it is red

What else they can fight for? Champion gets most money. Champion inspires people. And it's all about survival. THIS IS SURVIVAL. Look at this video, Poirier talks about survival: 

 

Look at what I said more carefully. I said becoming the "number one" champion. To become the number one champion in mixed martial arts, you have to defeat every opponent that crosses your path. That is analogous to stage red imperialism. The only example you mentioned that could come close to that is becoming the best athlete. You may notice that the bulk of the examples you mentioned can be explained by other motivations than becoming number one, things like purpose in the case of stage blue, and becoming the best version of yourself at stage orange etc. The theme that defines the Red "number one" is complete and unrelenting domination and submission of ALL opposition, not as a means but as an end. Not that it's impossible for people in higher stages to participate in these things, but the activity itself is still Red. Things like hunger is actually stage beige.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Rasheed]

11 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Look at what I said more carefully. I said becoming the "number one" champion. To become the number one champion in mixed martial arts, you have to defeat every opponent that crosses your path. That is analogous to stage red imperialism. The only example you mentioned that could come close to that is becoming the best athlete. You may notice that the bulk of the examples you mentioned can be explained by other motivations than becoming number one, things like purpose in the case of stage blue, and becoming the best version of yourself at stage orange etc. The theme that defines the Red "number one" is complete and unrelenting domination and submission of ALL opposition, not as a means but as an end. Not that it's impossible for people in higher stages to participate in these things, but the activity itself is still Red. Things like hunger is actually stage beige.

Depends on the mindset. You can be creator or competitor anything. 

 

"There is no Jose Aldo. You are against yourself"

[AtheisticNonduality]

In between Red and Blue.

 

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, Rasheed said:

Depends on the mindset. You can be creator or competitor anything. 

 

"There is no Jose Aldo. You are against yourself"

Does hunger depend on the mindset? No matter the mindset, the activity you're doing is still what it is.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Forestluv]

7 hours ago, Rasheed said:

With that logic:

• Becoming best entrepreneur is red.
• Becoming best athlete is red
• Becoming more conscious is red
• Becoming more developed is red
• Becoming master at the craft is red
• If someone is hungry, it's red
• If someone wants to be rich, it is red

Individualistic competition is at the core of red and orange, yet their expressions differ. There is a difference between a red-level gang member that kills others so he can be the best  vs. an orange-level basketball player that practices a lot so he can be the best. 

I would consider most UFC fighters to have a mix of red and orange. Most have orange-level desires for fame and money, yet you also need to be very physically violent to have success in the UFC. The whole point is exerting the maximum amount of violence into your opponent. 

[TrustTheProcess]

8 hours ago, Rasheed said:

With that logic:

• Becoming best entrepreneur is red.
• Becoming best athlete is red
• Becoming more conscious is red
• Becoming more developed is red
• Becoming master at the craft is red
• If someone is hungry, it's red
• If someone wants to be rich, it is red

all of those things have a healthy amount of red in them;)

[Akemrelax]

43 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

I would consider most UFC fighters to have a mix of red and orange. Most have orange-level desires for fame and money, yet you also need to be very physically violent to have success in the UFC. The whole point is exerting the maximum amount of violence into your opponent. 

Yea, not to mention you have to enjoy the violence. I'm sure a lot of the fighters use their primal instincts to win a fight, which is different from a soccer player. A soccer player might be really passionate about winning but their primal instincts don't really come to surface because their life is not in danger. I would say primal instincts are inherently red. 

[Forestluv]

17 minutes ago, Akemrelax said:

Yea, not to mention you have to enjoy the violence. I'm sure a lot of the fighters use their primal instincts to win a fight, which is different from a soccer player. A soccer player might be really passionate about winning but their primal instincts don't really come to surface because their life is not in danger. I would say primal instincts are inherently red. 

Here is a post-fight interview with Bellator champion Rory MacDonald. To reach this championship level, a fighter needs to have a killer instinct. When the opponent is hurt, they need to immediately brutalize him to the finish. Rory had recently begun with blue level religion. This was his first fight that he didn’t have the killer instinct to finish a wounded opponent with brutal violence. Notice how he has knocked his opponent partially unconscious, yet can’t “pull the trigger” and finish him off. His interview is very telling and beautifully shows him transitioning from red to blue.

 

[TrustTheProcess]

@Serotoninluv lol, awesome example of red->blue

[Lyubov]

 

I haven't seen the movie but apparently it's a realistic/disturbing depiction of the horrors of WWII over the sort of heroic fantasy many American movies show. 

Pure red devilry and ideology 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Lyubov

[OBEler]

Pure RED

 

[Leo Gura]

@OBEler Reminds of the classic stage Blue painting of a stage Red scene:

Rape of the Sabine Women

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Intervention_of_the_Sabine_Women#/media/File:F0440_Louvre_JL_David_Sabines_INV3691_rwk.jpg

[John Doe]

@Leo Gura At first glance, the scene seems to depict Stage-Red brutality, but reading the backstory took me by surprise quite a bit. One might think the defenseless women are being brutalized by the warriors, but it's quite the contrary. The women in the painting (the "Sabine women") are actually intervening in order to stop the fighting between the two groups - the Romans and the Sabines. And the shocking thing? It actually works, the Romans and the Sabines agree to stop fighting and live happily ever-after (lol wtf), a strange outcome considering these times were rife with barbarity.

[Lyubov]

Upon reflection I'm actually quite grateful to be living during our present times. Can only imagine a bit what it would be like to live through stage red times as a peasant or villager with armies coming in a doing the worst things imaginable. All things considered many of us are quite comfortable and safer than ever before and our problems seem almost miniscule to those faced by previous generations.

[AtheisticNonduality]

When I commit myself to enlightenment and orient myself from the physical world and toward base substrate consciousness, I will still enjoy the artistic genius of anger and darkness by idealistic people flailing at lower stages of development. Quite simply, it is interesting and necessary for people to do so, and I say anybody that doesn't support it is a buffoon that doesn't like results.

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, John Doe said:

@Leo Gura At first glance, the scene seems to depict Stage-Red brutality, but reading the backstory took me by surprise quite a bit. One might think the defenseless women are being brutalized by the warriors, but it's quite the contrary. The women in the painting (the "Sabine women") are actually intervening in order to stop the fighting between the two groups - the Romans and the Sabines. And the shocking thing? It actually works, the Romans and the Sabines agree to stop fighting and live happily ever-after (lol wtf), a strange outcome considering these times were rife with barbarity.

Yes, of course. Which is a good metaphor for femininity stepping in to stop toxic masculinity at stage Red.