Why Isn't Leo Enlightened Yet? Any Helpful Ideas?

[Kevin Dunlop]

On 25/7/2016 at 3:17 PM, Khin said:

@Joe Schmoe  Even if a person tells the truth, most of us just can't get it. I don't think enlightened people hid themselves, I think they just wanna keep their mouth shut (most of the time) because people won't understand what they have to say. 

People defend their identity as truth, without knowing it. They believe it is them so Its like a life or death fight for them. Its like the identity is clothing that your parents gave you when you were a kid, to keep you warm. You needed it then but now the clothes dont fit, the identity is the same you grow up and its not working for you. Some realize what is going on and get better clothes that fit. Some learn to edit the identity - make their own awsome new clothes. But you dont see many people going naked in society with no identity at all. To practice changing beliefs is uncommon in people. It takes alot of skill to be able to let go of the old survival kit.

[Kevin Dunlop]

1 hour ago, Piotr said:

Because unenlightened people operate from a thought based perceived reality and despite best intentions they only can add more of the fabric that obscures enlightement.

This is not to say that actualized.org does or does not help with enlightenment. It's just that talking about enlightenment has got nothing to do with it. 

I had one experience with transcending thoughts and dropping into what I guess you can experience in REM (I haven't studied much about particular experiences), but for a while I could see my identity as illusory and distorted from the true reality. Soon later I observed what my identity as nothing else but mental chatter that has got nothing to do with me and when 'I' watched 'myself' coming back to operating back from ego I soon realized there is nothing that words can bring about to get 'there'. 

I accept though the possibility that it's just my discouraged spiritual ego talking now 

This is why you can't say 'Hey Leo! You should be enlightened right now', because on a certain level that is going in the opposite direction  

Well lets just have fun then for what its worth, no pressure. I dont believe in the never or impossible. I can actually read a few words here and go out and try the ideas and have profound experiences, personally the wordiness doesnt get in my way. But I completely agree its when words about it no longer matter that one is experiencing authentic reality.

The words are like a door, boring planks of wood not much fun looking at it or talking about it, its when I open the door and step into the reality behind it that I finally experience it. 

Edited July 29, 2016 by Kevin Dunlop

[Kevin Dunlop]

On 26/7/2016 at 2:29 PM, jjer94 said:

It's all up in the air after realizing that the person has no control whatsoever over what they do, as well as realizing there's no such thing as morality. 

jjer94, thanks again for this info, what I am doing is using certian phrases you wrote to set off new experiences. After really experiencing a shift, atleast on one aspect of the ¨no control¨ concept, that intrigued me so much, I went ahead to investigate what happens when I believe ¨there is no such thing as morality.¨ 

At first, like with the other experience, the ego jumped in with its defense ¨Ya thats for sure, all that morality from society, they dont even know what they are talking about....etc¨

I relaxed and let that chatter pass. Then the real experience happened, I became aware of my own indenity´s  micro managing morality, for the first time Giving me little bits of advice to follow about almost everything. These bits of moral advice were always trying to prevent me from livivg authentic experience. Its like this invisible but huge amount of little nitpicky advice about whats right and wrong controlling the intuitive experience. This level of chatter then passed too and I began to freely follow my intuitive decisions without mini morality correcting anything. It was the only way to be free enough to experience authenticity.

So the excuse was that morality is this ten commandments thing we need so we dont hurt people. The reality is that the identity is full of usless, untrue, unneeded micro morality, criticizing authentic reality as it happens. BAM! Got to be aware. But its easy to see where this comes from, its learned every time some self appointed authouity figure steps in to correct us.

 

[Kevin Dunlop]

Iam going to teach you to have an imagination more powerful than reality itself! When you get it you´ll be able to imaging anything you want and it will seem more real than a real one. You will be able to imaging having or doing anything you want and youll feel like you have it. You wont need real things anymore, just some real food once in a while. With your new powerful imagination youll be able to imagine eating whatever you want, aaaah you can already taste it... good. But I must warn you once you realize that its all imagined you will get tired of imagining your own reality and want nothing more than to return to true reality. You are in that imagined reality now, is it all getting boring yet, not real enough?

[cetus]

We're all doing time with a capital "T"

[Kevin Dunlop]

On 25/7/2016 at 2:39 PM, Emerald Wilkins said:

Certainly there were aspects that were just a trip. I was seeing things and feeling things that I'm pretty sure isn't experienced by someone who is enlightened. But I don't know. All I know is that my past experiences match with the descriptions I've heard of enlightenment with the letting go of the personal self, end of seeking, equanimity, oneness, heightened awareness, no fear of death, and unconditional love. But it wasn't just joy, it was every emotion. Have you had an awakening yourself? Or do you just believe the last two sentences of your message to be true based on what you've learned about enlightenment? It's an easy trap to fall in and I fall in it all the time. Don't dismiss anything, as there really is no way to enlightenment.

 

[Kevin Dunlop]

On 25/7/2016 at 0:30 AM, Joe Schmoe said:

Enlightenment doesn't really sound all that exciting. Sounds like a waste time pursuing nothing. 

Maybe you should try Sociology instead.

 

[Kevin Dunlop]

29 minutes ago, Piotr said:

I like that analogy ? I'd say it's like there's a party behind your back all along and you choose to ignore it, looking for it everywhere else instead of just taking a turn.

Ya, its like the ego pretends to be the most intelligent, the only way, the biggest planner, the human dictionary, the biggest party animal of all. Who would think of looking elsewhere with this huge show going on.

[jjer94]

1 hour ago, Kevin Dunlop said:

I relaxed and let that chatter pass. Then the real experience happened, I became aware of my own indenity´s  micro managing morality, for the first time Giving me little bits of advice to follow about almost everything. These bits of moral advice were always trying to prevent me from livivg authentic experience. Its like this invisible but huge amount of little nitpicky advice about whats right and wrong controlling the intuitive experience. This level of chatter then passed too and I began to freely follow my intuitive decisions without mini morality correcting anything. It was the only way to be free enough to experience authenticity.

Good! Be vigilant.

When you begin to notice the hidden rules you use to direct your actions and live more spontaneously, it's absolutely terrifying at first.

The moment you open yourself up to spontaneity, you open the floodgates for your fears. You must face each and every one of them as they come up. Welcome in the emotional pain, the vulnerability, the risk of being openly disliked, even physical pain. Not many people are willing to do that. If you've already had a glimpse of your true nature, it may be easier. Regardless, surrender is victory. You achieve invulnerability through vulnerability. When you open yourself up to everything, what is left to defend?

Spontaneity is a complete openness to what is, a complete detachment to experience. Not detachment in the sense of "I don't care," but detachment in the sense of "whatever's arising is perfect as it is! I could die happy right now!" Most of us are micro-managing each moment in order to run away from a past we fear and a future we desire. And by doing this, we deny that which is right in front of us. 

Spontaneity is living, moralism denies living. Spontaneity is open and vulnerable, moralism is closed and protective. 

[Azrael]

On 29.7.2016 at 11:58 PM, jjer94 said:

You achieve invulnerability through vulnerability. When you open yourself up to everything, what is left to defend?

Great answer, @jjer94.

When I opened up to my intuition it would be the same exact way as you described. At first, weeks and months of horror and even more fear and anxiety then before ... because I had to get rid of the last illusions that were used to keep this ship called Arik on the water.

Then at some point as I wrote before intuition came and blasted this ship away, killed it, and surprisingly there were nobody on the ship in the first place who could've died from letting the ship sink. So I instantly became the ocean.

Here are some specifics on what changed when I really connected back with my intuition:

• my neurosis dropped 80% - in just one day ... that is pretty heavy if you experience that - and the 20% that is left I figured isn't as neurotic as I think but more needed in this modern world, like check if you have your keys on you when you leave the house but don't check everything 20 times, make sure you have everything and all is fine - this drove me nuts
• thought dropped 30-40% (I'm still a monkey mind) and access to memory came for it - this is huge as well, because ... I know it sounds crazy but I can actually talk to my subconscious and just figure out a solution what we want to do - I have no fights or anxieties at all any more, but if something is not right I just talk with myself and figure out a solution - but it needed this access to it - sometimes I play with it and ask shit like: "Will I get this girl xyz?" and it says yes and no - then if I ask it well do you think I get it .. it gives me an intuitive answer that is pretty fucking good - this is as I said huge
• I forgot to be really sad, like I still can be disappointed and also sad or fucked up to a degree, but it is just not sticking with me any longer, because there is no resistance to hold it any more - just a few days ago I failed an exam in university for the first time and I really expected to be fucked up because of that .. and I just wasn't, I felt good as always and I could even see how this gives me a pause, a chance and the potential to have another great experience in the future - this came completely intuitive and automatic - nuts as well
• I let her do her thing and even encourage her to be mischievous and bad - I'll probably post about this but one of the most amazing things is when you connect back with your own nature is that you meet god in one sense or another (god referring to how nature does its thing) and you get like intuitive notions about it - like you see how everything contains certain flows and patterns, how it plays with itself, how the deepest horrors and nicest moments are like a deep ass symphony, it is so alive and intelligent that I am just amazed and you can get in pretty close contact with its flow and experience some weird ass shit

I could go on and on and on. I'm like a little kiddie right now, amazed by the new world he is put in. But if I had to sum it up, when you connect with your intuition you lose every self correction notion, you see the bad things as the tales of a symphony that are the mothers of the mountains representing the highs, you get chilled while having an orchestra of feelings inside of you and you meet god literally. And you can truly and honestly feel that you were never born and can never die because your sense of ownership widened to everything there is. And you know that even though you as the person are this little face of her and you will vanish, you are the big thing and it shall create all kind of new games that are you - all around the cosmos and in every dimension and this is pure beauty if you ask me.

Cheers,

[Kevin Dunlop]

On 27/7/2016 at 2:34 AM, Ayla said:

@Kevin Dunlop, in neither of the circumstances was any YOU controlling or not controlling any of the experiences. BOTH states are just happenings in a body. The only difference is that in the second situation, mind has been AWARE of it. Mental constructs have received enough information and instructions to take another path and so to experience differently. All this, is due to billions of factors that have come together like in a dance, but there is and never was any "central unit" (you) experiencing it. 

 

 Ya I can see that alot of us are getting this type of experience, now that we are exploring this concept and putting it into practice. Its a big step, quite unexpected really. I started to see the ¨you¨ as a type of manager of the identity, a fiction created by the identity to experience it. Like the chicken and the egg, one just keeps on creating the other. Its hard to get used to writing in a way that expresses it properly. All new 

[philosogi]

On 7/24/2016 at 5:30 PM, 99th_monkey said:

The best thing we could do for him in that sense would be to be quiet, don't ask questions and let him go :)~

This is a start! But we could all work towards self-actualization ourselves and search inwardly for answers, do our own research, commit to a life of this instead of looking to Leo for the easy distillation! (The lessons are so much better learned when we go about them the slow way, vs if they are spoonfed.)

It's like eating vanilla pudding vs eating a balanced meal with all your macros, fibre, and nutrients. You can eat a litre of pudding and not feel satisfied, even though you're getting a sugar high. Conversely, it takes more effort for your body to process all the molecules in the complex meal, and you can eat a smaller portion and feel satisfied. 

PS. Is that emoji a smiley face with a wise-man goatee?

[philosogi]

On 7/25/2016 at 7:07 PM, vizual said:

Obviously his ego is invested in being this Youtube Guru. There needs to be a willingness to let go of everything. If enlightenment means you become a bum living in the streets and sucking dick for 2 dollar Mcdonalds coupons, that ought to be 100% acceptable and okay. There can be no attachment at all to all your romantic stories about an "actualized life" nor becoming some "enlightened saint".

Is your comment a joke? I think he's doing this to help us, actually. When you've reached a certain stage of self-actualization, you realize how much greater everyone's experiences of life could be, and you want to share it with others because of the pain and suffering you can see them in, and the potential you see in them to have so much more out of life. It's an unselfish mindset, and it's wonderful to feel that, because there's no more jealousy, hate, and all these poisonous emotions that ultimately just make you feel shitty. You know, that puddle of squirming lava in your gut? If you ever feel anger/jealousy/hatred, watch out for a feeling like that.

[Matthew Lamot]

18 minutes ago, philosogi said:

Is your comment a joke? I think he's doing this to help us, actually. When you've reached a certain stage of self-actualization, you realize how much greater everyone's experiences of life could be, and you want to share it with others because of the pain and suffering you can see them in, and the potential you see in them to have so much more out of life. It's an unselfish mindset, and it's wonderful to feel that, because there's no more jealousy, hate, and all these poisonous emotions that ultimately just make you feel shitty. You know, that puddle of squirming lava in your gut? If you ever feel anger/jealousy/hatred, watch out for a feeling like that.

Na, what Vizual said is the truth.  Enlightenment has nothing to do with accumulating knowledge, actualized life, self actualization, helping others, being a nice guy, its to di with not wanting to escape this life anymore.  Now, that statement "not wanting to escape this life anymore" can mean anything to anybody.  But if you really think about it, every single thing the Jiva does to accumulate, whether it be knowledge, emotional mastery, money, fame, a business, even enlightenment is a way to get away from itself.  Its all seeking and all seeking is Jiva activity.  Enlightenment is about the way that you think, and its the knowledge that ends the quest for all knowledge.  

Most people will never become enlightened, purely because the dont want it, they dont want to end the seeking because deep down they would have to face the emptiness that they feel without all those crutches.  Its unfortunate that most of us have a delusional ideology when it comes to what enlightenment is.  Its not our fault, its just what happened when religion collapsed in the West and the thing that filled the void was this exotic notion of enlightenment. 

Edited August 22, 2016 by Matthew Lamot

[philosogi]

@Matthew Lamot What do you think about the paradox of personal development? 

[Matthew Lamot]

Just now, philosogi said:

@Matthew Lamot What do you think about the paradox of personal development? 

Personal development is for an idea that doesnt even exist.  Enlightenment is the end of that idea.  Paradox is suffering.

[philosogi]

@Matthew Lamot The language of "personal development" is temporary language for the journey towards enlightenment. People who have no idea what they're doing use it as a tool to start somewhere.

Why is paradox suffering? 

[Matthew Lamot]

1 minute ago, philosogi said:

@Matthew Lamot The language of "personal development" is temporary language for the journey towards enlightenment. People who have no idea what they're doing use it as a tool to start somewhere.

Why is paradox suffering? 

Personal development has nothing to do with the journey towards enlightenment.  What youre referring to is a New Age theory.  Did they have "personal development" in the days of the Upanishads?

No, they had the path, and if we find out what the path is, that's all we need.

Paradox is holding two ideas together in the mind yeah?  Well, that is Jiva activity, and as long as there is a Jiva, there is suffering.  There are no paradoxes in reality, because reality is non dual.  It's the dream that has all these paradoxes and personal development ideas. 

When you understand what enlightenment is (and it's just pure logic) you will see that all this other stuff is not needed.  

[philosogi]

3 minutes ago, Matthew Lamot said:

Personal development has nothing to do with the journey towards enlightenment.  What youre referring to is a New Age theory.  Did they have "personal development" in the days of the Upanishads?

These are all human constructs and artificial delineations between different methods of the quest for enlightenment.

5 minutes ago, Matthew Lamot said:

Paradox is holding two ideas together in the mind yeah?  Well, that is Jiva activity, and as long as there is a Jiva, there is suffering.  There are no paradoxes in reality, because reality is non dual.  It's the dream that has all these paradoxes and personal development ideas.

I can't answer this in an educated way because I haven't researched what the Jiva is, nor duality vs. non-duality.

[philosogi]

@Matthew Lamot Come to think of it, do you have any handy video links for dualism study? There's so much material on Youtube I'm not sure where to start.