America is going for Herd Immunity- there are too many Anti-maskers and Anti-vaxers

[DivineSoda]

• Careful using blanket terms like "anti-this" "anti-that". It puts people in easy to understand boxes and doesn't allow for nuance in thinking. For example, if I make the claim that the vaccine schedule for babies is way too aggressive (70+ shots in the first 2 years) before their immune system is even fully developed, I am now an anti-vaxxer. I'm a nut job in the eyes of the mainstream, case closed. See what I'm saying? We can be better than that.
• Remember at first they told you not to wear the mask? Like emphatically? And now it's yes to the mask? It's not that we are "learning more as we go". This is like basic medical knowledge. They don't work the way you think they do. You should listen to some doctors other than in the mainstream talk about this. There's even evidence that the moisture you create on the masks acts like a magnet for bacteria/viruses which you then carry around with you. These can easily then get into your own lungs through the sides of the mask or other people as you sneeze/cough/breathe. 
• Way too much emphasis is being put on these masks. Do you notice how nobody's talking about how to actually strengthen your health/immune system? Diet, hydration, sunlight, exercise, sleep, stress/fear, supplements, deep breathing, etc? Why not? Why do we just focus on telling people what to do and complaining about those who don't follow the rules? 
• To be fair to that first video, masks do reduce the oxygen intake (and make you recycle your CO2). I've heard a number of workers complain that they hate wearing them and it makes it harder for them to breathe. Thus wearing masks actually decreases your immune system strength. 
• The U.S. numbers are terrible for many reasons which one could know if they dug a little deeper than surface news headlines.. none of which have to do with "hey, that guy isn't wearing his mask like he should!"

[mandyjw]

2 hours ago, Consept said:

Exactly, i think America has a misunderstanding of freedom, which is soaked in fear. Their gun policy demonstrates this, i would say America is an outlier in the western world, their history being a big factor. UK has been pretty bad in terms of the virus but America are way out ahead

Again, the wild diversity of the US is going to make for a wide varieties of stories about guns. Rural areas (where you're more likely to run across a rabid animal than a crazy person) have some pretty practical reasons for having positive feelings about guns. If fear is an illusion there's no convincing another person that his feeling of fear or safety is completely illusory and unfounded on anything. Whether we're talking about mask wearing, COVID, vaccines, guns, border security, police or any other topic, that's the really issue at heart. 

We is scared and we want to feel safe. We actually believe that security is a possibility that we can lock down outside of our own feeling. 

Edited June 26, 2020 by mandyjw

[Nak Khid]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/26/swedish-exceptionalism-coronavirus-covid19-death-toll

Guardian UK
june 26

Swedish exceptionalism has been ended by coronavirus

Erik Augustin Palm

It has taken a shocking Covid-19 death toll to dent the national self-image of moral superiority. But dented it has been

Haverist” is a Swedish word meaning “shipwrecked person”. During the course of Sweden’s shambolic response to Covid-19, dissent – whether from epidemiologists or journalists – has often been met with this insult, which implies the critics are fighting a losing battle. It’s telling of the way Sweden has handled its failure.

Through a uniquely slack approach (seen by many as the largely debunked “herd immunity” approach, even if the government denies this), Sweden reached the highest Covid-19 deaths per capita in the world in May. It still circles around the top, with more than 5,200 deaths – five times as many as in Norway, Finland and Denmark combined. After months of a mainly one-sided debate, critical voices are mounting. Even Sweden’s state epidemiologist, Anders Tegnell, admits to fault. But this has not been enough to change his agency’s strategy, which a majority of Swedes still have confidence in – although that support has waned.

(more at link)

____________________

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53190008

BBC

Coronavirus: Sweden says WHO made 'total mistake' by including it in warning

Swedish state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell has rejected a warning from the World Health Organization that included Sweden among countries in Europe at risk of a Covid-19 resurgence.

The WHO on Thursday said several countries and territories were seeing a rise in infections. Eleven were in the UN agency's Europe region.

Dr Tegnell told Swedish TV it was a "total misinterpretation of the data".

Sweden had seen a rise in cases, he argued, because it was testing more.

But the WHO said the proportion of those testing positive for coronavirus remained "at about 12-13%" despite increased testing.

This and other data indicates "that Sweden is still faced with community transmission", a spokesperson told the BBC.

What did the WHO say in the first place?

According to WHO data, EU member state Sweden has seen 155 infections for every 100,000 inhabitants in the past 14 days, far higher than anywhere else in the organisation's defined Europe region, other than Armenia.

Regional Director Hans Henri Kluge said in a press conference on Thursday that in 11 countries, which included Sweden, "accelerated transmission has led to very significant resurgence that if left unchecked will push health systems to the brink once again".

The other countries and territories were: Moldova, North Macedonia, Albania, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Ukraine, Kosovo, Armenia, Azerbaijan and the Central Asian states of Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan.

What's Sweden's position?

Sweden's response to the pandemic has been very different to other European countries. There has been no lockdown, with schools and cafes staying open, but large gatherings have been banned and most Swedes observe social distancing.

It has seen 5,230 deaths in a population of 10 million - a far higher mortality rate than its neighbours. This week Sweden reported its highest number of daily infections since the outbreak began, with 1,610 on Wednesday.

 

Edited June 26, 2020 by Nak Khid

[Onemanwolfpac]

18 hours ago, Nak Khid said:

 

America is going Brazil.

Trump doesn't wear a mask and multi-millions of Americans refuse to as well. 

"Flattening the curve" is over.   I think America is too divided to do what Europe has done with mitigation. 
Many of the people who are against the mask wearing are probably going to be against taking a vaccine also.

I think we are headed toward a herd immunity scenario.   I'm wondering what the body count is going to look like

 

 

 

Trump doesn't wear a mask. WHO colluded and covered with China. The economy was shut off for the flu? This is the level of spineless cowards and level of stupidity. And yet, riots are the cure to covid. Trump was a racist for closing the boarder because of global pandemic. And yet, protests are ok and businesses are closed with the threat of jail but riots are ok. 

You wut? 

Its all a game and political. You've been duped. 

[DrewNows]

[Forestluv]

With the recent increase in coronavirus cases, there has been an uptick in conspiracy theories on the forum regarding the virus. Just a reminder that conspiracy theories are against forum guidelines. 

[Consept]

I didn't actually realise the religious componant 

 

[TrustTheProcess]

@Consept
 

It's crazy how the worse judgement you have, the more confident you seem to be. lol

[Nak Khid]

hilarious video, we're screwed

[Forestluv]

@Consept Yes. Freedom and god are prevalent in America and there are all sorts of cocktail mixes - some quite bizarre. 

[Bodigger]

40 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Freedom and god are prevalent in America and there are all sorts of cocktail mixes - some quite bizarre. 

I just heard Cocktails are banned in all Florida restaurants and bars.

[Forestluv]

13 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

I just heard Cocktails are banned in all Florida restaurants and bars.

I’m not sure if this is literal. I read that Florida recently re-shut down bars in an effort to mitigate the spread of the coronavirus. 

To me, the temporary shutting down of bars is an effort to mitigate viral spread. I can see how some would perceive it as a loss of freedom, yet I don’t see it that way. An analogy I would use is that when lightening strikes at a sports event, the event is temporarily postponed. If lightening continues to strike, the sporting event is canceled. I see this as an effort to mitigate the risk of lightening strikes, which promotes the safety and health of the community. I don’t see it as stripping people of their freedom. 

[Nak Khid]

Freedumb

[Bodigger]

10 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

To me, the temporary shutting down of bars is an effort to mitigate viral spread. 

Yes, there is little difference between this and shutting down a road due to a storm or repairs.  It doesn't mean we can't drive, we just need to find another route.  I am confident people will find another way to get there booze.  However, I feel for the businesses and we should do what we can to help them out.

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, DrewNows said:

How silly.

There is no freedom without the security of your life and health.

The whole point of a lockdown is to increase freedom. People don't get how counter-intuitive freedom is.

[Consept]

2 hours ago, louhad said:

@Consept
 

It's crazy how the worse judgement you have, the more confident you seem to be. lol

lol yeah its the dunning-kruger effect, when you know a little you feel really confident in your knowledge, when you know a lot you realise how much you dont know and are actually less confident

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Consept said:

the dunning-kruger effect, when you know a little you feel really confident in your knowledge,

AKA, a fool.

It's amusing that scientists had to invent a complex academic label for "fool". And they named it after themselves

[Nak Khid]

Anti-mask supporters printing fake face mask exemption cards to get out of wearing masks,  St Louis

 

 

Utah

 

'murica

Edited June 26, 2020 by Nak Khid

[Consept]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

AKA, a fool.

It's amusing that scientists had to invent a complex academic label for "fool"?

If you tell a fool theyre a fool they wont listen, if you tell them theyre suffering from some scientific effect you might have a chance 

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Consept said:

if you tell them theyre suffering from some scientific effect you might have a chance

Good luck