Right Wing Populism

[TrustTheProcess]

Do you guys think that "journalists" like Tucker Carlson act and report in good faith?

He always tries to frame things as "dem elites trying to screw the working class over", but apparently every time Trump passes legislation that transfers wealth to the top 1% like his tax cuts, he switches to covering transgender issues. 

Edited June 25, 2020 by louhad

[TrustTheProcess]

@Husseinisdoingfine

I don't think it is necessarily fair to characterize populism as very low consciousness... of course, there's limitations to it if it is treated like an ideology and you demonize "elites"... but I think we need to swing towards more populism in that the government needs to operate more to serve the interests of the masses rather than the corporate donors. we will see more of it as we head to stage green... 

anyway, I was mainly wondering if y'all think that Tucker genuinely cares about bringing more power to the people or if he is just rolling with a script to get a check and knows it is bs. 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, louhad said:

like Tucker Carlson act and report in good faith?

Yes, he does it in good faith. He's a true believer in his own ideology.

He simply has a different worldview than you. If it seems that he's acting in bad faith, it's because you don't appreciate the difference in worldview because you are looking at the situation from your own worldview.

You're missing the relativity of all worldviews. Your worldview is not "true", it's a projection of your own mind and its survival concerns. Same as Tucker.

If you really want to grow, drop your worldview and try to look at the world from Tucker's POV until you understand its appeal.

[TrustTheProcess]

@Leo Gura

what do you think about this documentary?

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, louhad said:

@Leo Gura

what do you think about this documentary?

So what's missing from that analysis is that Tucker is still operating under a worldview and an ideology.

His mind -- like all minds -- tailors his worldview to fit his survival needs, and vice versa.

Believe it or not, even with everything said in the above video, he's still acting in good faith, in a deeper sense. His worldview is one in which his actions are fully justified, reasonable, true, and good.

Of course his ideology conveniently aligns with what is good for his career.

[Nak Khid]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

So what's missing from that analysis is that Tucker is still operating under a worldview and an ideology.

 

Is it possible for someone to not act in good faith?   

[Nak Khid]

3 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

There being an 'elite' who control the media, corporations, etc, is a natural and healthy outcome of the current society we live in

I'm not sure Howie Hawkins would agree

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

Is it possible for someone to not act in good faith?   

In a deep sense, no.

Everyone believes their actions are in the highest good. Because ego defines "good" as "good for my survival".

[TrustTheProcess]

@Leo Gura lol, Everyone is doing whatever is best for their survival agenda, of course... my question is whether you think that Tucker intentionally tries to deceive his viewers... like does he really care about "elites" abusing their power, but being so blinded by his right wingdom that he actually thinks trump isn't corrupt... or does he know, but not care.

with cnn, I really feel like they are too blinded in their bias to even see democratic corruption, but tucker strikes me differently

Edited June 26, 2020 by louhad

[Nak Khid]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

In a deep sense, no.

Everyone believes their actions are in the highest good. Because ego defines "good" as "good for my survival".

what if someone helps a stranger get out of a burning car and they know the car could blow up at any time ? 

[Leo Gura]

24 minutes ago, louhad said:

@Leo Gura my question is whether you think that Tucker intentionally tries to deceive his viewers... like does he really care about "elites" abusing their power, but being so blinded by his right wingdom that he actually thinks trump isn't corrupt... or does he know, but not care.

My point is that such a question is not as easy to answer as people assume.

The mind deliberately conflates its worldview and its survival agenda to the point where it's hard to distinguish what is authentic and what is an act.

I would bet that he believes that Democrats are far more corrupt and dangerous than Trump, which renders the question of Trump's misdeeds and corruption moot in his mind, similar to how we might overlook Biden's problems because we see Trump as the greater evil.

He cares about elites abusing their power to the extent that it serves his worldview and career.

14 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

what if someone helps a stranger get out of a burning car and they know the car could blow up at any time ? 

What???

[Joel3102]

@Leo Gura what do you think of Kyle’s arguments as below that Bush is worse than Trump and the media is rehabilitating Bush to some degree

to some degree I think Bush could be worse due to sheer number of deaths in Iraq, but it also seems clear that Trump is even less evolved on the spiral 

[Nak Khid]

54 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

In a deep sense, no.

Everyone believes their actions are in the highest good. Because ego defines "good" as "good for my survival".

what if someone helps a stranger get out of a burning car and they know the car could blow up at any time ? 

That would be doing good and putting one's own survival at risk to do it

[Forestluv]

34 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

My point is that such a question is not as easy to answer as people assume.

The mind deliberately conflates its worldview and its survival agenda to the point where it's hard to distinguish what is authentic and what is an act.

I noticed during FoxNews’ early coverage of the coronavirus there were two quick, dramatic changes of narratives. At first, the coronavirus wasn’t a big deal. It was just a bad flu and democrats were trying to hype up the viral threat to make Trump look bad. Then Trump set up his coronavirus task force and in literally one day all the FoxNews hosts took a complete 180 degree flip and started saying how serious the coronavirus threat is and how we all needed to protect ourselves. It was like they completely forgot there previous two weeks of coverage. And then a week later, all of a sudden all of the FoxNews hosts flip back to the coronavirus isn’t a big threat, it’s just a bad flu, the numbers are overinflated we need to reopen the economy etc.

I could see views gradually evolving back and forth over time. Yet these were dramatic, rapid changes. Do you think that the FoxNews hosts weren’t aware that this was an act? They come to work on Wednesday and are told to say the opposite of what they said yesterday . . . and the cognitive dissonance is so strong they can’t see this is an act?

[Leo Gura]

36 minutes ago, Joel3102 said:

@Leo Gura what do you think of Kyle’s arguments as below that Bush is worse than Trump and the media is rehabilitating Bush to some degree

to some degree I think Bush could be worse due to sheer number of deaths in Iraq, but it also seems clear that Trump is even less evolved on the spiral 

I disagree with Kyle on this. Trump is fundamentally more dangerous than Bush, even though Bush might have caused more lives lost strictly-speaking with Iraq. You have to distinguish between potential damage and actualized damage. You don't know how bad Trump could get if he gets 4 more years. A nuclear war is on the table. And when we take a look at the slow Covid response, hundreds of thousands of deaths could be on Trump's hands. A war with Iran is still on the table, which could be worse than Iraq.

Obviously Bush was a dangerously ignorant leader. But Trump is more ignorant and more dangerous.

Obviously I have not interest in whitewashing Bush's presidency. It was a disaster on many levels, both internationally and domestically. I was extremely critical of Bush during that era.

31 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

what if someone helps a stranger get out of a burning car and they know the car could blow up at any time ? 

That would be doing good and putting one's own survival at risk to do it

Selfless action is possible of course. I was talking about how most ego-minds work. I'm not talking about saints and sages here. This is a discussion about Tucker and his ilk.

29 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

It was like they completely forgot there previous two weeks of coverage. And then a week later, all of a sudden all of the FoxNews hosts flip back to the coronavirus isn’t a big threat, the numbers of overinflated we need to reopen the economy etc.

Right

Quote

I could see views gradually evolving back and forth over time. Yet this were dramatic, rapid changes. Do you think that the FoxNews hosts aren’t aware that this is an act? They come to work on Wednesday and are told to say the opposite of what they said yesterday and the cognitive dissonance is so strong they can’t see this is an act?

They are in a bubble of their own BS. In order for them to bullshit their viewers they must first bullshit themselves, otherwise they could not do their job.

Don't underestimate the mind's ability to fool itself into believing whatever serves its survival. Self-deception covers its own tracks. They are not aware of their own hypocrisy because then they couldn't live with themselves. From their POV they are defending solid, good, American conservative values against crazy and evil communists who seek to destroy America. They see themselves as heroes and guardians of mankind. This justifies all of their flip-flopping and manipulations.

[Forestluv]

@Joel3102 Kyle is missing a nuance: Bush was worse than Trump on warmongering, yet Trump is worse on the rule of law and respecting America’s governing institutions. That is the point Obama is making and he is correct, Bush was better in this regard. From a political strategy perspective, this makes Trump look bad relative to his republican predecessor, especially when Bush has been indirectly critical of Trump and has not endorsed Trump. The Bush’s clearly don’t like Trump. As well, the democrats don’t want to marginalize moderate Bush Republicans that are lukewarm to Trump. Biden can pick up a lot of those voters. They are the Lincoln Project voters. . . I’d go one step further and drop a few crumbs about how Biden worked with Bush on a few initiatives.

And I don’t buy Kyle’s forecast that in the future, Democrats will launder Trump. I can’t see a situation in the future in which Democrats need to kiss some Trump ass to get his voters. It’s not going to happen. The demographics and progressivism of the Democratic Party are shifting in the completely opposite direction than Trump’s support. In eight years, the Democratic powers will be like AOC, there is no way they are going to launder Trump, imo. 

[Forestluv]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

They are not aware of their own hypocrisy because then they couldn't live with themselves. From their POV they are defending solid, good, American conservative values against crazy and evil communists.

Could one way of doing this be to think “I’m defending solid, good, American conservative values and I need to be agile to respond against crazy and evil communists”. . . That way if they come in on Wednesday and the narrative completely changes, they can rationalize it as “adapting” their strategy against the crazy and evil communists. 

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Could one way of doing this be to think “I’m defending solid, good, American conservative values and I need to be agile to respond against crazy and evil communists”. . . That way if they come in on Wednesday and the narrative completely changes, they can rationalize it as “adapting” their strategy against the crazy and evil communists. 

Of course!

Once the mind paints some situation as evil and another as good, virtually any action can be justified in the avoidance of that evil situation because it's seen to be in the service of good -- which can't be wrong (by the mind's logic).

For example, if the mind believes that it is on God's side, almost any action is justified in the service of God. And you better believe all those FoxNews people believe they are doing God's work.

Since they see the communists are taking more and more radical actions and gaining ground, they feel more justified to take off the kid gloves and use every trick in the book to win.

[Forestluv]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course!

Once the mind paints some situation as evil and another a good, virtually any action can be justified in the avoidance of that evil situation because it's seen to be in the service of good -- which can't be wrong (by the mind's logic).

Now that I think about it. . . If I was able to bring this up to Sean Hannity, he would not see it as hypocrisy. He would have some justification for it or shift the topic to how hypocritical democrats are. 

It seems conservatives do this more often, yet democrats are not immune. When Kavanaugh was accused of sexual assault, the democrats were all in supporting Blasey-Ford and how she should be believed. Yet when Biden was accused of sexual assault, the democrats ripped Tara Reade apart and said she shouldn’t be believed. To me, Tara Reade had more corroborating evidence than Blasey-Ford. 

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Now that I think about it. . . If I was able to bring this up to Sean Hannity, he would not see it as hypocrisy. He would have some justification for it or shift the topic to how hypocritical democrats are. 

It seems conservatives do this more often, yet democrats are not immune. When Kavanaugh was accused of sexual assault, the democrats were all in supporting Blasey-Ford and how she should be believed. Yet when Biden was accused of sexual assault, the democrats ripped Tara Reade apart. And to me, Tara Reade seemed to had more corroborating evidence than Blasey-Ford. 

Of course. This is what I refer to as self-bias, where one's own position is held as privileged and sacrosanct.

The lower down the Spiral, the more self-bias there is.

The mind uses double-standards, confirmation bias, projection, denial, and justification to enforce its self-bias.