Populist Ideology

[Apparition of Jack]

@Leo Gura You have to admit though, that in the last few decades the divide between the haves and have-nots has grown, almost exponentially, and that the increasing power differential is causing a lot of problems? Even if it's mostly due to ignorance, it feels like more and more money is just being funneled upwards for no long-term benefit for society. I understand that your average hedge fund manager or tech billionaire is more evolved and conscious than your average person, but even an undeveloped construction worker or nail groomer needs to eat food, have a secure place to live, etc.

Edited June 24, 2020 by Apparition of Jack

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Apparition of Jack said:

@Leo Gura the increasing power differential is causing a lot of problems?

Absolutely!

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but even an undeveloped construction worker or nail groomer needs to eat food, have a secure place to live, etc.

Indeed

We need to move towards one person, one vote, and seriously raise taxes on the wealthy and giant corporations, and break up monopolies, and ban lobbying, and publicly finance elections.

These basic changes would solve most of the problems.

[Preety_India]

 

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. 

And democracy yawns at the masses. 

 

[DivineSoda]

@Leo Gura The Hill is not absolute truth. But they are many tiers above mainstream media, which you seem to post a lot of lately. Can you see how trashy mainstream media is Leo? CNN? Fox? MSNBC? Take your pick. Or no? 

 

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, DivineSoda said:

But they are many tiers above mainstream media

No they aren't. They have just created their own ideological bubble. You can't escape ideology so easily as Krystal and Sagaar think.

[DivineSoda]

@Leo Gura They are a better ideology. Mainstream media is pure trash, idk why you defend them (and even seem to respect them). Have you studied the way they manipulate the truth? The way they study human psyche and how to appeal to the base senses? They way they're connected to government and don't actually have the people's best interests at heart? It's pure devilry. We excuse them thinking "oh yeah they're just after the ratings". But it goes way deeper than than. 

Remember the lead up to the Iraq war? The media made that possible. They were just a mouthpiece for the government. And we all believed them.. only to find out later that it was all lies. That's how it works, on every level of story. 

We'll keep creating the same mess for ourselves as long as we keep taking MSM seriously. When it comes to understanding what's going on in our state/nation/world, the quality of our information sources is everything. We have to be able to trust them and their intentions, otherwise we're fucked. MSM has proven over and over and over that we can't trust them. 

You may not like Krystal and Sagaar or agree with them or say they're stuck in their ideological bubble (we all are), but you can't say they are actively creating disinformation like we can say about the MSM. 

[Jacobsrw]

49 minutes ago, DivineSoda said:

@Leo Gura They are a better ideology. Mainstream media is pure trash, idk why you defend them (and even seem to respect them). Have you studied the way they manipulate the truth? The way they study human psyche and how to appeal to the base senses? They way they're connected to government and don't actually have the people's best interests at heart? It's pure devilry. We excuse them thinking "oh yeah they're just after the ratings". But it goes way deeper than than. 

Remember the lead up to the Iraq war? The media made that possible. They were just a mouthpiece for the government. And we all believed them.. only to find out later that it was all lies. That's how it works, on every level of story. 

We'll keep creating the same mess for ourselves as long as we keep taking MSM seriously. When it comes to understanding what's going on in our state/nation/world, the quality of our information sources is everything. We have to be able to trust them and their intentions, otherwise we're fucked. MSM has proven over and over and over that we can't trust them. 

You may not like Krystal and Sagaar or agree with them or say they're stuck in their ideological bubble (we all are), but you can't say they are actively creating disinformation like we can say about the MSM. 

You seem to be not accounting for the fact that anyone whom contends with the mainstream media equally falls into the same trap. One who creates a world view which instils utopian idealism and avoidance of mainstream capitulation does not render them self free of delusion. In fact, many of those who propagate ideas opposing the media sprout almost no sufficient systematic solutions in which to replace the very systems they criticise.

Its easy to criticise, but much harder to construct adequate systems that reflect meaningful change.

This is YouTube populism at its finest for you. Throwing around critique and judgement, holding next to no competency regarding the pragmatism required to remedy the matter at hand.

I agree with you MSM is a delusion fest, doesn’t take a scientist to figure that. However, I do not agree these new ideologies in opposition to them are any better. 

Edited June 24, 2020 by Jacobsrw

[DivineSoda]

@Jacobsrw I agree, it's basically the same flawed paradigm. I don't even listen to The Hill to be honest (or any other political show). I've just seen some of their stuff in the past and can easily say they're better than MSM (which doesn't say much at all). 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, DivineSoda said:

Mainstream media is pure trash

You are so blinded by the hatred of them that you fail to see that without mainstream media democracy would devolve into authoritarianism and rank corruption the likes of which you cannot even imagine.

Mainstream media is what protects against Trump becoming a full on tyrant. You just take this function for granted. Most nations can only dream of having America's freedom of press and quality journalism.

Trump's bashing of the mainstream media is precisely designed to undermine it so that he can be a lying tyrant. This is so fucking obvious, yet you're falling for it. In your eagerness to avoid the string of a bee you are jumping into the jaws of a crocodile.

Trump's attacks on the press is one of the most evil things that he's done. And it has long-term consequences beyond his time in office.

[Extreme Z7]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

To be fair, his analysis is pretty sloppy.

I'm starting to regret linking to him the more I watch his stuff. He's conflating all conservatives with fascists, which is just dumb. Classic Green trap. Find a better source.

Most conservatives are decent people. If this isn't understood, there is a fundamental bias.

Never claimed he's a high-quality source. He also unironically thinks the majority of nazis (and certain kinds of hippies) are mentally ill.

And generally speaking, anyone who doesn't even know Spiral Dynamics is a thing doesn't understand 99% of human behavior.

He's still entertaining as hell sometimes, though. I don't watch almost every one of his videos unlike someone like David Pakman. Though admittedly, Pakman's uploads are very short.

Edited June 24, 2020 by Extreme Z7

[Epikur]

15 minutes ago, Extreme Z7 said:

He also unironically thinks the majority of nazis (and certain kinds of hippies) are mentally ill.
 

What's wrong with that?

Edited June 24, 2020 by Epikur

[DivineSoda]

41 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You are so blinded by the hatred of them that you fail to see that without mainstream media democracy would devolve into authoritarianism and rank corruption the likes of which you cannot even imagine.

Mainstream media is what protects against Trump becoming a full on tyrant. You just take this function for granted. Most nations can only dream of having America's freedom of press and quality journalism.

Trump's bashing of the mainstream media is precisely designed to undermine it so that he can be a lying tyrant. This is so fucking obvious, yet you're falling for it. In your eagerness to avoid the string of a bee you are jumping into the jaws of a crocodile.

Trump's attacks on the press is one of the most evil things that he's done. And it has long-term consequences beyond his time in office.

I disliked mainstream media long before Trump. They are manipulative, corrupt and basically a mouthpiece for the government (even though they are playing the let's hate Trump game). While we are busy worrying about Trump's latest tweets, the U.S. is continuing it's devilry (your words) all around the world and within. Yet we only pay attention to what the media has us care about in the moment because we're not taught to look any deeper than surface level. I know you know this. Have you read the book (or watched the documentary) Manufacturing Consent? 

Media is super important to a functioning democracy, you're right about that. But what we have today is neither. It's been like this for decades now, since before you were born. Therefore we are devolving into authoritarianism and corruption to the likes of which I don't have to imagine, it's already here. 

Anyway, we can agree to disagree man.. it's all good Leo! ❤️

[Leo Gura]

26 minutes ago, DivineSoda said:

I disliked mainstream media long before Trump.

Yes, and he capitalized on that.

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While we are busy worrying about Trump's latest tweets, the U.S. is continuing it's devilry (your words) all around the world and within.

The media reports on far more than Trump's latest tweet. The media report many serious things and points of devilry and corruption.

The news media is forced to be shallow because the people are shallow and have the attention span of squirrels. The news media has to compete with entertainment, YT cat videos, music videos, the sensationalist ravings of Alex Jones, juicy conspiracy theories, tabloid gossip, clickbait websites, etc. That is our collective situation. Don't blame that on some elites.

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Have you read the book (or watched the documentary) Manufacturing Consent? 

Of course. But that's still better than a crippled and demonized media.

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Therefore we are devolving into authoritarianism and corruption to the likes of which I don't have to imagine, it's already here.

Corruption is decreasing, not increasing.

[Akemrelax]

37 minutes ago, DivineSoda said:

Media is super important to a functioning democracy, you're right about that. But what we have today is neither. It's been like this for decades now, since before you were born. 

I think you really lack perspective here. You should watch the media of other countries like India then you will realize the USA’s is FAR better.

If you don’t get your facts from the mainstream media, where do you get them from? Ultimately you have to go to them.

https://rsf.org/en/ranking

Edited June 24, 2020 by Akemrelax

[Extreme Z7]

1 hour ago, Epikur said:

What's wrong with that?

Well. . . it's dumb. You can't just explain away ideologies you don't like with mental illness.

Richard Dawkins did that and he was mocked for it at least by sensible people who don't think religion comes from mental illness.

[Epikur]

15 minutes ago, Extreme Z7 said:

Well. . . it's dumb. You can't just explain away ideologies you don't like with mental illness.

Richard Dawkins did that and he was mocked for it at least by sensible people who don't think religion comes from mental illness.

Identifying and being obsessed with things or thoughts could be seen as a form of mental illness. In your daily life you are doing dumb things all the time. Why do we do dumb things all the time? Maybe because we could not think healthy at that time?

So when you have an ideology that is basically doing or thinking dumb things on a greater scale you are doing or thinking very unhealthy. Can't this be described as delusional or mental illness?

Couldn't be this a legit perspective?


 

Edited June 25, 2020 by Epikur

[TrustTheProcess]

Mental illness is a social construction. 

[Extreme Z7]

@Epikur Don't argue this with me. It's very simple to understand. I have better things to do.

Edit: Read up on what a mental illness is. I think that's mostly your problem here.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Extreme Z7

[Epikur]

24 minutes ago, Extreme Z7 said:

@Epikur Don't argue this with me. It's very simple to understand. I have better things to do.

Edit: Read up on what a mental illness is. I think that's mostly your problem here.

Relax you act very dual today

[Extreme Z7]

@Leo Gura I've thought about it some more and now I genuinely think you're wrong in saying that Vaush thinks most conservatives are fascists. Not quite sure where you got that from.

I've been a fan of his content for many months and I never got that message from him. And he certainly has never just said it outright. I think he just believes that there is a significant section of online right-wing political discourse that largely represents fascist behavior.

I don't think you're being charitable enough to him but I will admit that he does lean towards ideological tendencies as well.

But hey, at least he recognizes the importance of voting for Biden 2020 lol.