Salvia again, witnessing the whole existence and the all knowing mind - its a curse!

[Exystem]

@AlwaysBeNice

4 minutes ago, AlwaysBeNice said:

There is just what appears,

and consciousness is free from it inherently

Of course, it comes and goes, and consciousness stays the same. But it's always reappearing, there's no end to it. I don't understand why some people kind of deny the suffering experienced by consciousness (I don't say youre doing!). Ok, may just be an illusion, just the resistance or whatever. But if it's not real, why don't I see any enlightened guy going to syria or offering himself instead of some guys at guantanamo or whatever. Even Jesus suffered at the cross! If pain is just an illusion and you can see through it, why do these people who claim to have achieved this, why are they're sitting calmly in their nice little armchairs instead of proving their fantasies by truly loving, sacrificing their nonexisting biochemical mashines in order to alleviate the suffering of those who still believe in the illusion? Of course it's all pointless you can say, it doesnt matter what they do, but they are speaking about love but they could love soooo much more!! the highest form of love means sacrifice for no selfish reason, not sitting in bliss telling others how stupid they are believing their life is real.

15 minutes ago, AlwaysBeNice said:

It came out of nothingness, as an existential happening.

Who knows? come on, you're also just repeating what others told you. That cannot be verified by "you".
I don't wanna offend you or anything like that. Thanks for your contribution! This is not all meant to you, I just use your quotes to let my doubts flow.
But I'm sick of anyone speaking in language relativizing others discriptions. Of course in the end it all just is for whatever reason. But the moment we verbalize it it becomes only a part of truth (at most). Accept that this was my experience, it appeared to be real to me, this is my interpretation of it. You may have never ever experienced something like that, so you can't put your experience above mine. You don't know who is more conscious. Maybe it's not just beautiful and bliss and love or whatever. Maybe that's just half of the story. Maybe your ego doesnt like it, maybe thats why you never faced it. There are so many pseudo-enlightened guys out there claiming to know everything. But most of them did not experience torture, suicidal desperation, complete dumbness, insanity or whatever. They're experiencing bliss and peace, maybe they went through some relatively tough times, but in the end they have a healthy body and are not willing to change their superior position with anyone, that's how truly loving most of them are.

You know I don't trip for bliss states anymore. I trip with the intention to experience the truth, including the other side of the spectrum if necessary, too. Truth doesn't need to be blissfull in my eyes, maybe it is, maybe not. I keep searching for it as long as I'm a human. I don't claim not to be deluded, to know anything finally/absolutely, ALTHOUGH I have had breakthroughs on DMT and other stuff, "becoming" infinite, experiencing "nothing/the void", bursting out in love and whatever. It's all states of consciousness and back to my human form now I'm obviously not omniscient, and it can be distorted, twisted memories about it all. As long as there is a human living organism, it can by definition not contain everything, for it is just an infenitely small part and has its limitations by definition. If you believe something else, verify it and jump to the moon or whatever.

Why did god create anything limited at all? Why did god create the illusion of suffering? If It's all perfect and complete from the beginning tell me why to change anything? Maybe in the end it absolutely makes no difference, but then you have to accept that all the torture and suffering is just an eternal part of the game. That there is the experience of infinite oneness and infinite loneliness and everything else. Of course there may be an even more existential onness behind those two compements, but that's not anything to talk about. The moment you open your mouth you can only talk relatively. If you want to talk about it, come to the level of experience, everything else makes no sense. When there's something behind/beyond experience every attempt to put it into words is a false game. It may be that the most conscious ones realize the deepest truth beyond all perception beyond all concepts beyond everything communicable and it is completely free from everything but why don't I see anyone of them beeing truly loving like Jesus? They still play the spiritual guru adored by their sheep, buy big mansions, fuck their girls and play their word games. If someone really got an infinitude of truth and peace, (s)he could share it by acting out of it, out of true love, not only talking about it.
I wanna be truly loving, and it may mean that I go through torture, may mean that I feel absolutely lonely for a huge amount of time, may mean everything my ego doesn't like. It comes and it goes, the background of eternal consciousness stays the same. From one side it may be loneliness that made every seperation appear, from the other side it may be love that created the diversity. From one side god is running away from itself, from the other side god is running towards himself. God is always here and now. But every partial description aside from that may just be half of the story. So love may be an equal explanation as existential loneliness. Doesn't fit the ego which wants a positive end result, but may be the truth. So of course my experience and interpretation is not the absolute truth. But I don't want to avoid salvia or bad experiences just because they may horrify me. Suffering grows you. I could also just take the stuff that fills me with infinite love and bliss. But I think I will have to pay the price for it one day.

Jeffrey Martin did some academic research on enlightenment (persistent non-symbolic experiences). He found out that people at various stages believed their nondual state of consciousness is eternal, could never regress. He proved that lots of them are quite deluded in many ways. When some of them fell back into a "normal human" state of consciousness, they often had deep crisis. Almost Everyone was really convinced they're at the end of the latter. Only when shifting between locations they realized there's more to it. Some locations are full of love, others are completely free of any feeling, just infinite freedom where nothing matters at all. They all claim to know the truth. As humans, we can only communicate states/experiences, not the absolute truth. What's absolute true is true for everyone, what can be known can be unknown, what can be gained can be lost. So nice if someone realizes himself. But as you use this termenology of realizing, you give rise to the fact that there is "unrealizing", too. If you can become enlightened, you can become unenlightened too. Everything is one already, including the tortured person that suffers and wants to end its life, feeling absolutetely lost and lonely, including the blissfull guru, buying its next mansion. Who's right? Its a game. A snake biting its own tail. The ego doesn't like that it may be a wheel turning over and over again. That after mahasamadhi it will be just reborn in suffering as it was already born there in the first place. The true relief may be to end the search for "more", for "better", and just to accept that everything is as it is, including the inescapable fact that you will always return to suffering one time, to feeling absolutely lonely, to experience times where you want to end your own existence. That's the role play consciousness is playing since eternity. Why else have you started here as a suffering human in the first place? You already exist for eternity, you would have won the game already when it could be won.
And yeah I know, "You are not the human" blablabla.. But you experience it!! You experience or at least experienced seperatedness and suffering, although you are eternal. Guess why.

[AlwaysBeNice]

Yeah overcomplicating things. 

But you are still believing in a creator God, or that you are fundamentally a creator, that something created you, wants you to do things, wants to experience things, this comes out of a misunderstanding of what you are.

Existential consciousness doesn't have a motive to exist.

It's too existential for that.

[AlwaysBeNice]

All this talk about lonely lonely. Tomorrow go to a park, watch the kids play and the doggies, make eye contact, then see what happens to these thoughts of lonely that seem so real now. 

[diamondpenguin]

Is magic mushrooms a good tool?

[AlwaysBeNice]

There are people who have done 100s of trips and are still (trying to) entertain themselves with nonsensical concepts, it doesn't matter if you have no intention to want to go beyond your own mind, see all thoughts as untrue, that's the most important choice. Ego renunciation, self minded renunciation. 

Psychedelics are okay with sufficient understanding and then still intense, amd else they can delude one further. Having an already kind of stable life, no sins or bad unresolved pasts, that is in fact totally mandatory believe it or not.

[electroBeam]

6 hours ago, WHO IS said:

I can say that it is kind of scary! To see the whole existence in front of you and to experience the cursed of the ultimate knowledge.

In the trip:

There was a narrator female voice :

Remember her saying

“this is the curse of existence”

Was showed about this intelligence programmed to calculate and learned everything to reach the ultimate knowledge but when it knew everything 100% it became a prisoner of itself stuck in the endless cycle of existence like a hamster in a wheel but the hamster never get tired and will never die its just keep on running on the loop.

It was bored and lonely its constantly looking for the end of the cycle but it was endless. It keeps finding ways to stop from existing. Though it knows its gonna be like that for eternity. Its moving so fast and creating an echo of itself like a mirror facing each. It was pure energy and chaos.

When I’m having this experience it feels like its me but It also feel that its not me . Its hard to explain. Thought Its not gonna end also.

Does anyone experience the same. ?

What was felt was that the all knowing entity finds comfort in pretending not know itself by becoming an entity with many boundaries like us humans. for it to escape its prison for a brief moment.

So happy when the trip was going down. Feeling the ignorance and feeling of the great unknown .

that sounds like egoic projection onto a bunch of mystical experiences. There's no such thing as 'prisoner' or being 'stuck', those are ego mind constructions. There's no such thing as 'boredom' or 'loneliness', etc. 

[WHO IS]

53 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

that sounds like egoic projection onto a bunch of mystical experiences. There's no such thing as 'prisoner' or being 'stuck', those are ego mind constructions. There's no such thing as 'boredom' or 'loneliness', etc. 

These kinds of arguments are based on the premise that ego and egoic pov is somehow inferior compared to the non-egoic pov. You take egoic-pov as a limitation and burden, but what if it is the total opposite? 

[Exystem]

@AlwaysBeNice

1 hour ago, AlwaysBeNice said:

But you are still believing in a creator God, or that you are fundamentally a creator, that something created you, wants you to do things, wants to experience things, this comes out of a misunderstanding of what you are.

god/nothingness/existential consciousness, all just words, I use them interchangeably. Don't want to get stuck there. Creation/happening/appearance, same. All limited notions, this and not that. I don't assume god to be personal per se, or impersonal.

1 hour ago, AlwaysBeNice said:

Existential consciousness doesn't have a motive to exist.

Never claimed this.

1 hour ago, AlwaysBeNice said:

All this talk about lonely lonely. Tomorrow go to a park, watch the kids play and the doggies, make eye contact, then see what happens to these thoughts of lonely that seem so real now. 

I don't feel lonely right now. Everything's fine. Just try to integrate my experience.

40 minutes ago, AlwaysBeNice said:

if you have no intention to want to go beyond your own mind, see all thoughts as untrue

Of course they are not true in the absolute sense, since they are limited, within truth, within consciousness.
You don't realize your own belief system. You have theories like "It came out of nothingness, as an existential happening" , "Oneness organizes things through love intelligence and law of attraction, but it didn't make these things". It's the same. Just words and thoughts, not absolute truth. The moment you speak against me, you take a postition. You can't free yourself from it, using dualistic lanuage. Claiming: "All one can say is delusional" is itself something said. "Everything is relative" is an absolute statement. Thinking "every thought is wrong" is athought.
I did never say god created itself because of loneliness. This doesn't make any sense obviously. But claiming there is no intention behind the relative world is not better or worse than claiming there is an intention per se. Duality, word games. Whatever is true and not these word games can't and doesn't need to be spoken or explained or corrected. I experienced infinite loneliness, in that sense it's real to me. It has its place WITHIN consciousness, I can't deny it from my very experience. As long as you didn't experience it, you can deny it if you want. Whether it happened out of love, by chance, because of loneliness or whatever, just words, just perspectives. It is. But why is there something like torture? Your "existential happening"-explanations are as pointless as saying its because god is infenitely lonely. You could say by definition, in the beginning there was something like an "existential happening", I dont refer to this because it explains nothing, and thats not what I intend when using language. Not saying anything makes more sense than saying something obsolete. If this is what you realize for yourself, fine. I don't even need to realize it, it can't even be doubted that we must take the first miracle for granted, no matter if we call it existential happening, nothingness, god or big band or whatever. So I dont refer to this. Absolute truth is true for everyone everytime everywhere, so no need to talk about it. We must go one step further to speak meaningful words about what comes next. So why does torture exist? Different perspectives, one of which I experienced and refer to as infinite loneliness. If that is too much for you already, just stay "existentially happened".
 

[AlwaysBeNice]

You haven't experienced infinite loneliness else it would still be the case now, you experienced temporary apparent loneliness. 

You can say it's alone, but feeling lonely is an experience that comes and goes.

...

As for torture, temporary torture, minds get deluded and suffer, and then after they experience release from it, but consciousness doesn't get tortured. And yes it comes from the existential happening originally without choice.

[electroBeam]

48 minutes ago, WHO IS said:

These kinds of arguments are based on the premise that ego and egoic pov is somehow inferior compared to the non-egoic pov. You take egoic-pov as a limitation and burden, but what if it is the total opposite? 

Actually I don't take that position. But in the grand scheme of things, egoic consciousness is a mechanism to allow us to 'wake up'. Its not the truth. Its not the ultimate destination, and its not even leading up to the ultimate destination. Its a dead end part of the maze which you'll run around in for a while before getting back on track. I'm not saying a dead end is inferior or unimportant, in the grand scheme of things its allowing you to get to the end of the maze, but running around in it too much is needless suffering, and its got nothing to do with truth or getting to the truth. You'll get to the truth once you realise these projections are not important, are distractions and are not leading you to truth. 

[Lyubov]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You keeping doing salvia and you're gonna get burned.

Salvia is not a good tool for this work because it's too twisted.

Be careful using psychedelics which can show you nonduality but also twist up your mind.

Is it possible to trip regularly and not fall into a fear/insanity loop or spiral? I keep falling into these without every really releasing them much so I' backing off from anything big for a while until I feel I'm ready to release and go beyond. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Lyubov said:

Is it possible to trip regularly and not fall into a fear/insanity loop or spiral? I keep falling into these without every really releasing them much so I' backing off from anything big for a while until I feel I'm ready to release and go beyond. 

It's gonna happen, which is why you gotta pace yourself well, for the long-haul. Treat psychedelics as a marathon, not a sprint. Space out your work over years. If you try to bull your way through with psychedelics you will burn yourself out.

[justfortoday]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You keeping doing salvia and you're gonna get burned.

Salvia is not a good tool for this work because it's too twisted.

Be careful using psychedelics which can show you nonduality but also twist up your mind.

Salvia will have you talking to people that were never there, and feeding your fear.

I once did it and literally thought I was Jesus.

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, justfortoday said:

and literally thought I was Jesus.

You are. LOL

[justfortoday]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You are. LOL

Good. At least I get to be immortal for all the shit those assholes put me through.

Edited June 24, 2020 by justfortoday

[Member]

Christ died as a human to be born as God. Immortality is not for mortals.