#ShutdownSTEM, #ShutdownAcademia

[Yog]

Just sharing it. Personally do not know what to think of it. Never though it would get this .... bizzare.

https://www.shutdownstem.com/about

Here are some commentaries on it:
 

 

 

 

[electroBeam]

[Epikur]

I think as an idea it is very progressive. Science like military is a male project. Females find it brutal and cruel and inhuman.

If you could bring all men down to accept a global matriarchy you may not need them anymore. There are tribes that function like that.

Disarming all men does not sound so easy. Convincing living without technology does not sound like fun too.

[Leo Gura]

Meh...

Drama, drama, drama.

Stay calm and carry on.

It's like people want change to happen, but then as soon as it starts happening they start whining.

Weinstein doesn't understand the relativity of science and materialism. Therefore he doesn't understand Post-Modernism and why it is challenging STEM.

The epistemology and metaphysics of STEM needs to be questioned and deconstructed, and you're not going to stop that from happening no matter how hard you try. This is fundamentally what people like JP, Weinstein, Sam Harris, etc. do not understand.

STEM and academia will never get shut down. They are just being questioned.

[Recursoinominado]

 

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, Epikur said:

There are tribes that function like that.

So it must work for 7 billion people, right?

[Onemanwolfpac]

7 hours ago, Yog said:

Just sharing it. Personally do not know what to think of it. Never though it would get this .... bizzare.

https://www.shutdownstem.com/about

Here are some commentaries on it:
 

 

 

 

Stupidity. 

[Epikur]

4 minutes ago, Recursoinominado said:

So it must work for 7 billion people, right?

I guess the numbers will come down naturally.

Edited June 22, 2020 by Epikur

[Nak Khid]

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

STEM and academia will never get shut down. 

why not?

[electroBeam]

55 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Meh...

Drama, drama, drama.

Stay calm and carry on.

It's like people want change to happen, but then as soon as it starts happening they start whining.

Weinstein doesn't understand the relativity of science and materialism. Therefore he doesn't understand Post-Modernism and why it is challenging STEM.

The epistemology and metaphysics of STEM needs to be questioned and deconstructed, and you're not going to stop that from happening no matter how hard you try. This is fundamentally what people like JP, Weinstein, Sam Harris, etc. do not understand.

STEM and academia will never get shut down. They are just being questioned.

that's got nothing to do with the inital argument that science = racism 

[Leo Gura]

58 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

that's got nothing to do with the inital argument that science = racism 

Science certainly has biases in it. Biases at the epistemic level, metaphysical level, and then at social and cultural levels.

Is there some systemic racism and sexism in academia? Almost certainly.

[electroBeam]

53 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Science certainly has biases in it. Biases at the epistemic level, metaphysical level, and then at social and cultural levels.

Is there some systemic racism and sexism in academia? Almost certainly.

There could be systemic racism in the study of economics, liberal arts, business, sales, sociology or psychology, etc. But saying there's systemic racism in quantum mechanics or atomic theory or particles or the periodic table is nonsense. Its relative, sure, but its not racist. 

Or mathematics, saying Pythagoras's theorem is racist against blacks is nonsense. 

Edited June 22, 2020 by electroBeam

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

But saying there's systemic racism in quantum mechanics or atomic theory or particles or the periodic table is nonsense. Its relative, sure, but its not racist. 

Or mathematics, saying Pythagoras's theorem is racist against blacks is nonsense.

I'm not sure which serious people are saying that.

I think the claim is more that these fields have been heavily dominated by European white men for a long time and that more opportunities should be made for minorities.

[electroBeam]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm not sure which serious people are saying that.

I think the claim is more that these fields have been heavily dominated by European white men for a long time and that more opportunities should be made for minorities.

I agree partially with the sentiment of #shutdownacademia, because promotions and job prospects do have racist elements in them, I was more focused on #shutdownstem, which as far as what the website suggests, is the idea that basic/pure research and applied research in science, technology, engineering and mathematics kills black people. It potentially does on the frisks of applied research, for example, fingerprint systems that incorrectly mismatch white robbers for black robbers, or facial recognition systems that mis identify whites for blacks, but the majority of STEM research is not perpetuating harm against blacks. I'm pretty sure that's what the movement is saying because I read a passage about facial recognition incorrectly identifying black people. 

[Raze]

In my opinion stage green people are damaging the closest things we have to stage yellow institutions.

[Leo Gura]

34 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

as far as what the website suggests, is the idea that basic/pure research and applied research in science, technology, engineering and mathematics kills black people.

STEM, just like the police, isn't going anywhere, so I wouldn't worry about it.

You have to not let the latest silly or absurd fringe example color your view of the world. There is a whole business now of getting outraged at some one crazy edge-case as if it's mainstream.

[electroBeam]

Criticising and deconstructing STEM is important, but do it fairly and justly. Saying that mathematicians are making research that reinforces anti-black racism, or technologists are creating technology that are "routinely weaponized against black people" is an extreme exaggeration at best, and a vicious lie at worst. 

You're not going to get STEM professionals on board and sympathetic of your position by telling them that the job they love, the job they've spent years and thousands of dollars on to take, a job they believe is impacting the world, is 'weaponized' against black people without them even realising it. They wont buy it, and all it will do is make them hostile and angry against your movement; and rightly so, because as far as I'm concerned, rarely do I see technology researchers in university contributing to the discrimination of black people through their work, let alone intentionally. Neither do I see mathematical theorems that when released through the press, contribute to anti-black racism. Mathematical research should not even be mentioned in this movement if you care about being fair and just. Mathematical departments as a constitution... another story, but that's not what's #shutdownstem are talking about. 

Liberal arts students can criticise or deconstruct science on a metaphysical level, but they need to understand that telling scientists who have dedicated their life, 60+ hours a week and a load of criticism, pandering to authority and years of low pay, that their scientific foundations are shoddy, is not a nice way of deconstructing science. Its careless, reckless and disrespectful of the people they are talking to. Especially when humanities researchers put their own agenda into it, such as feminism or anti-black racism. 

If you want to go deconstruct science, go for it, but don't push your deconstructions onto other researchers. Allow the right researchers to come to you. And don't politicise it, or skew it with your own agenda. Be fair to everyone. 

@Leo Gura I don't have an attachment to STEM, or care whether it exists or not, but what I see is people in STEM being unfairly criticised for stuff they aren't doing, and being conflated with the politics of anti-black racism. The black lives matter movement have consistently, and repeatedly conflated and included groups and organisations within their criticism who don't deserve it, and you see it just leads to collateral damage, like the responses in the videos above. I'm all for changing the world and making it more just, and that's actually why I'm pissed with their conflation, because I see that they are shooting themselves in the foot and just regressing their vision. 

Edited June 22, 2020 by electroBeam

[Hello from Russia]

Wtf is that bullshit, lol

[IJB063]

@Leo Gura

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Weinstein doesn't understand the relativity of science and materialism. Therefore he doesn't understand Post-Modernism and why it is challenging STEM.

Yes these college students are engaged in a vigorous intellectual battle against STEM as they’re post modern philosophers and not just spoilt stupid children throwing a tantrum  

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The epistemology and metaphysics of STEM needs to be questioned and deconstructed

I agree but that’s not what these people are arguing, they’re just brain dead white eyed idiots that are pissed they indebted themselves with student loans for their gender studies degree, when Eugene worked hard in Chemistry and has now paid of his loans and making good bank, now like typical children they’re throwing a fuss over there own terrible life decisions 

“STEM and academia will never get shut down. They are just being questioned.“

Not if these people had there way

Edited June 22, 2020 by IJB063

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, IJB063 said:

and not just spoilt stupid children throwing a tantrum

In that case what are you worried about?

Are spoiled children gonna take down science and universities?

[IJB063]

@Leo Gura

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

In that case what are you worried about?

Are spoiled children gonna take down science and universities?

Their vote counts as much as mine