I keep on thinking I'm the Brain

[Winny]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Is it true that RIGHT FREAKING NOW is all there is?

Yes, that I can say is true because that is something I experience. 

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Is it true that your brain is imaginary?

Can't say just yet because I still have to do more self inquiry

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You can optimize your sleep without needing to appeal to some metaphysical notion of a brain. In the same way that you can eat a banana without needing to bring to mind the atoms which you imagine it is made of.

Ok, I get that, but what do I base my future actions on if there's no some sort of proof? Let's just say, as an example, a post is published on how to be more productive. We all know that you should have a strong why, having a vision, limitiing distractions, etc. but then there's a new discovery saying that if you repeat the word "banana" 100 times, it will somehow affect your basal ganglia, which is responsible for habits, and all of your bad habits will be gone (a VERY absurd example, which is not true at all ) I just want to get my point across that people will believe it more when it is backed by proof of the brain. What about scans that show the different activities of the brain? (I know I talked about this already, but can technology lie to us as well?)

26 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You are going to have to seriously question the foundations of science here. Science is not true as you were led to believe. Science contains some partial and relative truths, but it cannot grasp Absolute Truth, Consciousness, or existential questions. Science cannot ever tell you what you are. This is a meta-scientific question. Science cannot tell you what anything is in the absolute sense. Science can only make relative comparisons between things. Science cannot ever get at the thing itself.

For example, science cannot tell you what red is, or what a chair is, or what matter is, or what energy is, or what time is, or what a number is. Etc.

Notice that science has never given you a bottom line answer about what ANYTHING is! Start to wonder why that is.

I agree with this.

[Leo Gura]

19 minutes ago, Winny said:

Yes, that I can say is true because that is something I experience. 

Good. But how do you know experience is true?

What is more true, experience or fantasy?

And what is the relationship between experience and fantasy? Is fantasy a type of experience?

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Can't say just yet because I still have to do more self inquiry

Good

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but then there's a new discovery saying that if you repeat the word "banana" 100 times, it will somehow affect your basal ganglia, which is responsible for habits, and all of your bad habits will be gone (a VERY absurd example, which is not true at all ) I just want to get my point across that people will believe it more when it is backed by proof of the brain.

In this case the only way you'll know if it's true is if you do the action and test it for yourself. Say banana 100 times and see what happens.

Without doing that, notice, all you have a belief. The science could turn out to be false. This happens often.

In practice, we can talk about brains as long as we remember that we are talking about a relative, imaginary construct of the mind. We can talk about conceptual stuff but the key is not to get lost in our concepts and start confusing them for reality.

Again, you have to be extremely careful with how your mind weaves strong imaginary narratives such as: "To optimize my sleep I must change the brain and the brain is a real organ, etc." << all that is relative stuff.

"The brain" is a conceptual narrative which grounds your entire sense of reality. Which is why it's so difficult for your to shake free of it. You see, you've hinged your very life on it. So this puts you in an existential bind. If you question the brain too much, you will lose a piece of yourself. Some part of you will die. And you don't want to die.

To you, reality comes from the brain.

To a Muslim, reality comes from Allah.

To a kid, Christmas gifts come from Santa Clause.

All these are imaginary constructs to which we grow attached and which are difficult to let go of because they are so fundamental to our worldview. If Santa Clause is imaginary, where do gifts come from? The kid is confused. He does not yet know the true origin. That takes work to discover.

[Winny]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Good. But how do you know experience is true?

What is more true, experience or fantasy?

And what is the relationship between experience and fantasy? Is fantasy a type of experience?

Good

In this case the only way you'll know if it's true is if you do the action and test it for yourself. Say banana 100 times and see what happens.

Without doing that, notice, all you have a belief. The science could turn out to be false. This happens often.

In practice, we can talk about brains as long as we remember that we are talking about a relative, imaginary construct of the mind. We can talk about conceptual stuff but the key is not to get lost in our concepts and start confusing them for reality.

Again, you have to be extremely careful with how your mind weaves strong imaginary narratives such as: "To optimize my sleep I must change the brain and the brain is a real organ, etc." << all that is relative stuff

Ok, I guess what it really boils down to is TESTING IT OUT YOURSELF before believing others about anything. 

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But how do you know experience is true?

Well, it's something that I am aware of RIGHT NOW.

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What is more true, experience or fantasy?

hmm...that is a really good question since fantasy seems so real that you can not differentiate it from reality. Therefore, I can not answer that. 

 

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Is fantasy a type of experience?

I guess (not 100% sure) 

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Winny said:

Well, it's something that I am aware of RIGHT NOW.

Okay, but how do you know that RIGHT NOW is true? Could RIGHT NOW be false?

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I guess (not 100% sure) 

Don't guess. Look at what is true. And in the meantime just realize: I don't know.

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hmm...that is a really good question since fantasy seems so real that you can not differentiate it from reality. Therefore, I can not answer that. 

If you fantasize about a banana. Is that part of reality or not?

What is reality? Locate it.

What is fantasy? Locate it.

[Winny]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Okay, but how do you know that RIGHT NOW is true? Could RIGHT NOW be false?

RIGHT NOW is what I see, hear, touch, sense and am aware of so therefore, it is true. It could be false, I don't know, but does it really matter? If all of what I am aware of at this very moment, isn't that what determines what I know of? Whether true or false, it is HERE. 

One question, can a blind person also become spiritual enlightened? You say a lot in your videos, just look at your hand right here and right now and what about a blind person? He then has to be aware of the sounds? 

 

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Don't guess. Look at what is true. And in the meantime just realize: I don't know.

I'll do my inquiry on that  

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, Winny said:

can a blind person also become spiritual enlightened?

Of course

Quote

You say a lot in your videos, just look at your hand right here and right now and what about a blind person? He then has to be aware of the sounds?

Sounds, feelings, or anything else in his experience. He must have some experience, otherwise he wouldn't exist.

It makes no difference what sensation you focus on. I use visual examples because most of us are highly visual creatures and our visual fidelity is highest.

Plenty of Zen masters got enlightened by focusing on sound. Sound can be an excellent meditation target. As can bodily sensations like pressure or breathing.

You can even focus on nothing and awaken that way. Since you are Nothing But it's hard for newbies to focus on nothing.

[Member]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Since you are Nothing

Is God nothing?

[zeroISinfinity]

Yes YOURSELF. LOVE not away right here always forever. 

[justfortoday]

On 6/21/2020 at 4:46 AM, Winny said:

I'm the awareness, but I'm also my brain that processes every information that comes to me, like the 5 senses and thoughts as well. If I had no brain, I wouldn't be able to function and there would be no "I"

Do you see your own face?

No. Instead you see the world.

Every brain you have ever seen "belongs" to another body that isn't yours.

It's an appearance that appears within the self-consistent logic of this shared dream we call reality.

Objects are not possible in reality. Only consciousness.

Therefore no, you do not have a brain.

The "brain" is something consciousness imagines as part of the self-consistent logic it imposed when it created the "Holos".

[Member]

I'm this human, I'm this brain, I'm this blah blah blah. Just notice how the perspective narrows to a thing instead of everything.

[justfortoday]

1 minute ago, Member said:

I'm this human, I'm this brain, I'm this blah blah blah. Just notice how the perspective narrows to a thing instead of everything.

I love that. 

[Winny]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course

Sounds, feelings, or anything else in his experience. He must have some experience, otherwise he wouldn't exist.

It makes no difference what sensation you focus on. I use visual examples because most of us are highly visual creatures and our visual fidelity is highest.

Plenty of Zen masters got enlightened by focusing on sound. Sound can be an excellent meditation target. As can bodily sensations like pressure or breathing.

You can even focus on nothing and awaken that way. Since you are Nothing But it's hard for newbies to focus on nothing.

That's very interesting!

Does this then mean that everything we have believed to be true until now has to be ALL inquired? Like the existence of blood, hormones (endorphine, dopamine, etc.), perception, nature, etc. etc. just existence of EVERYTHING. We can't trust anyone then?

[Nercohype]

I've been thinking this for days now... 

Let's say that our eyes were down at our belly, in a weird parallel universe. 

Would we experience awareness from down there or up where the "brain" is? ?

[Member]

20 minutes ago, Winny said:

That's very interesting!

Does this then mean that everything we have believed to be true until now has to be ALL inquired? Like the existence of blood, hormones (endorphine, dopamine, etc.), perception, nature, etc. etc. just existence of EVERYTHING. We can't trust anyone then?

Everything is changing, there's no such thing as fixed reality or truth so that you can point your finger at this or that. Have you ever had a dream in which you ate something and you could swear that you feel the taste? The same thing happens in "real life" just that it's way more complex than we think.

[abrakamowse]

3 hours ago, justfortoday said:

The "brain" is something consciousness imagines as part of the self-consistent logic it imposed when it created the "Holos".

In Vedanta they say the body (brain in this case as part of the body) is one of the coverings, sheaths or koshas.

From wikipedia:

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Annamaya kosha, "food" sheath (Anna)

This is the sheath of the physical self, the grossest of the five koshas, named from the fact that it is nourished by food. Living through this layer humans identify themselves with a mass of skin, flesh, fat, bones, and filth, while the human of discrimination knows oneself, the only reality that there is, as distinct from the body. The physical body is formed of the essence of food. Birth and death are the attributes of the Annamaya kosha.

 

 

Edited June 24, 2020 by abrakamowse

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Winny said:

Does this then mean that everything we have believed to be true until now has to be ALL inquired? Like the existence of blood, hormones (endorphine, dopamine, etc.), perception, nature, etc. etc. just existence of EVERYTHING. We can't trust anyone then?

Nothing has to be. You can trust whoever you want, but trust does not guarantee truth. Every time you trust someone about something you are creating an opening for being wrong. So if something is important to you, you better verify it yourself. The unimportant stuff you can trust people on.

[Winny]

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Nothing has to be. You can trust whoever you want, but trust does not guarantee truth. Every time you trust someone about something you are creating an opening for being wrong. So if something is important to you, you better verify it yourself. The unimportant stuff you can trust people on.

So, Leo, I want to give you an example of how my self inquiry goes and you can point out to me if I'm on the right track and what thought pattern is keeping me stuck. 

So, I sit there for 25 minutes and ask the following: 

- who am I? 
- you are the brain, of course
- how do I know that? 
- well, everything you do, comes from the brain
- but RIGHT NOW, who am I? 
- you are aware of your sensations and your thoughts...isn't that your brain?
- why should it be the brain? 
- because it is scientific proven
- your DIRECT EXPERIENCE...RIGHT NOW...who are you? 
- someone is always watching my thoughts, which doesn't speak and doesn't do anything...am I the awareness? 
- could it be? 
- but then who comes up with these thoughts? 
- they come up out of nowhere...so is this nowhere you? 
- you cannot only be the awareness cause else who is doing the actions? coming up with thoughts? who decides things? 
- me
- who is this me? it can't be you because you are a thought and you are definitely not a thought
- its nothing? 

That's where I'm currently stuck at. These thoughts they arrive out of nowhere. So, is this nowhere and nothing that is deciding everything? My thoughts, actions, including the awareness? 

Right now when I'm typing all of this, who decided this? It's not the thought, but it's the one BEFORE the thought, which is located nowhere. Am I right? Am I on the right track? 

[Carl-Richard]

@Winny

Yes you are on the right track. When you ask the question and nothing happens, you're not doing anything wrong. You're not necessarily looking for an answer given to you through a thought. You "are" what you "feel" is true for you in that moment. You know what you are without even thinking about it.

The next step could be to find what is the thing that cannot be removed from yourself in this moment, or what has remained constant and unchanged through your entire waking life. What has always been present in your experience in the same condition since the day you were born? Or even better, what existed for you before you were born, or before the universe existed?

Edited June 25, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Someone here]

@Winny just a little hint :

Whatever "thing" you find to be yourself is not yourself. Because there is always " something " who is aware of that. It's always going to be an object of experience not the subject. Just like The eye can't see itself and the knife can't cut itself. You can't find yourself. Yourself is ever-hidden because it's ever-present. It's like trying to use a flashlight to look for the source of the light!!.  You can't look for what is doing the looking for! Chasing your own tail they say lol  

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, Winny said:

So, I sit there for 25 minutes and ask the following: 

- who am I? 
- you are the brain, of course
- how do I know that? 
- well, everything you do, comes from the brain
- but RIGHT NOW, who am I? 
- you are aware of your sensations and your thoughts...isn't that your brain?
- why should it be the brain? 
- because it is scientific proven
- your DIRECT EXPERIENCE...RIGHT NOW...who are you? 
- someone is always watching my thoughts, which doesn't speak and doesn't do anything...am I the awareness? 
- could it be? 
- but then who comes up with these thoughts? 
- they come up out of nowhere...so is this nowhere you? 
- you cannot only be the awareness cause else who is doing the actions? coming up with thoughts? who decides things? 
- me
- who is this me? it can't be you because you are a thought and you are definitely not a thought
- its nothing? 

That's where I'm currently stuck at. These thoughts they arrive out of nowhere. So, is this nowhere and nothing that is deciding everything? My thoughts, actions, including the awareness? 

Right now when I'm typing all of this, who decided this? It's not the thought, but it's the one BEFORE the thought, which is located nowhere. Am I right? Am I on the right track?

Yes, that is a good start.

Get very simple and direct with it.

Try this next time you sit down for 25 mins: Take your finger and try to point to yourself. Notice carefully what the finger it pointing at. Try to clarify what that thing is. Notice, the finger never points at a brain. What is seeing the finger?

As you do this, try to minimize thinking. Don't think about it, look at it. Clearly, thoughts come and go, so they cannot be essential to what you are. What is essentially you?