Sam Harris - Police Brutality, BLM, Identity Politics

[remember]

14 minutes ago, Roy said:

If you think people like Sam and Jordan aren't doing good things and should be ignored you need to go back to the drawing board of your world view, because you've lost the plot.

its not about a good or bad narrative and you know that! its also not about helping people where they are at, its about where to. that’s a tiny tiny tiny tiny difference in size of chicken brain versus the whole thing. if you still think a labyrinth is like a dot with a ray of arrows and every arrow leads you to a preferable exit, we can have a talk about chaos magic again.

Edited June 21, 2020 by remember

[Lyubov]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Can you imagine how Sam Harris has sex?

He sits there calmly talking to the woman until he cums from the magnificence his own logical conclusions 

I have never listened to Sam Harris but judging by some of the responses in this thread I'm gonna just delegate this one to yall and avoid him altogether 

[Epikur]

34 minutes ago, Roy said:

I know it's not completely happening in this thread but I see a lot of it on this forum. Why so much Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson hate? They help millions people through their discussions and knock so much sense into the endless stupidity in our society.

So what if they're rationalists or too happy to talk about science? That's just what they know, and that's what most people need these days, which is precisely why it's resonating so much.

You help people where they are at. Proselytizing about Stage Yellow systems thinking or preaching State Turquoise spirituality just flies over the head of Blue and Orange masses. If you aren't being mindful of who you're trying to help it's just ego masturbation about how woke and smart you are and it's no wonder communities like this get laughed at so much for being "crazy".

If you think people like Sam and Jordan aren't doing good things and should be ignored you need to go back to the drawing board of your world view, because you've lost the plot.

I like them but sometimes I am an oppurtunist and run with the mob

Jordan was important when he came up. The left was crazy at that time. Most akademics were to afraid to talk against it. 

He is kind of weird. His frog voice doesn't make things easier. He looks like he is in pain all the time. Not too enjoyable.

Sam is really boring. His talks are actually meditations. On the other hand he is not really rhetorically good. I think he needs some acting classes to be enjoyable like Joe Rogan or Leo.

He is kind of reasonable that is quite a plus I guess.

 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2020 by Epikur

[Epikur]

29 minutes ago, remember said:

but never at the same time - the dirty is probably more for mud holes, never heard that as a saying. a little lie goes a long way. even through muddy waters huh?  gotcha

I guess with "we" I ment me in pluralis majestatis

Edited June 21, 2020 by Epikur

[remember]

1 minute ago, Epikur said:

I guess with "we" I ment me in majectic plural

yes we are all majectic, especially in pluralistic societies. ? 

[Epikur]

8 minutes ago, remember said:

yes we are all majectic, especially in pluralistic societies. ? 

You were too quick I was editing. It should have been:  pluralis majestatis

 

Edited June 21, 2020 by Epikur

[remember]

2 minutes ago, Epikur said:

You were too quick I was editing. It should have been:  pluralis majestatis

 

if quick pluralis majectic or majestatis pluralis quick who cares - all the same thing.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Roy said:

You help people where they are at.

No, you help people where you are at. Because you can't help yourself.

[Epikur]

22 minutes ago, remember said:

if quick pluralis majectic or majestatis pluralis quick who cares - all the same thing.

We were wrong and we want to punish us so we can remember it. 

In english it's majestic not majectic. 

Sometimes we do care
 

[remember]

3 minutes ago, Epikur said:

We were wrong and we want to punish us so we can remember it. 

In english it's majestic not majectic. 

Sometimes we do care
 

neologisms are just one possible outcome. don’t be so stiff.

[Epikur]

13 minutes ago, remember said:

neologisms are just one possible outcome. don’t be so stiff.

Yes we were wrong. Don't be so stiff by accusing people to being stiff.

Anyway back to topic. I still believe Sam should take acting classes or somecommunication training. On the other hand he is not really a speaker he is a writer he did say. So maybe we should just not listen to him and just read him.

Jordan on the other hand I guess should meditate more. He was all over the place. He should not play the archetypical hero all the time.




 

 

[smurf88]

8 hours ago, Preety_India said:

 

To all the people who chime in with Sam Harris and talk about logic, rationality and statistics, here's a good riddle for y'all, use your logic now. 

 

 

I would suggest running the equation again using the number of UNARMED criminals rather than armed ones.
When you include armed criminals, it's a lot harder to differentiate whether the officer acted out of self-defense or not. Still, I don't think the movement is about raw numbers. It's about the total lack of accountability in the cases that do happen, as well as worse treatment in general, and on those grounds I completely agree that something has to be done.

Edited June 22, 2020 by smurf88

[lmfao]

It's been a while since I've thought about Sam Harris. Some years back when I was very conscious of the fact that I was no longer muslim, and I had to formulate some sense for my childhood and upbringing, he was the perfect person for me to hear talk. 

I do think he has often needlessly been attacked and vilified. It's a fate many public figures have to deal with to various degrees and in various ways.

I can strongly empathise with him and feel Sam's pain. If I am to make an image for how he's felt hurt by the world. He wishes to be a voice of clarity and sense but instead gets stones thrown at him and is spat on, banished from the town of villagers who don't want to stop being savages. He feels like Ralph from Lord of The Flies. The tribe he wishes to help has turned on him, and that's his trauma. He feels like a biblical prophet that the ignorant villagers have banished and ostracised. 

What highlights this is his whole relation to "identity politics". I've heard the most generalised thoughts on the matter that he's given publicly. So with Sam,  he's an idealist of sorts and likes to think in universalities. He's trying to work towards universalities. He has strong principles which he'll highlight with the occasional hypothetical and metaphor. The metaphors will feel in a certain sense very detached and idealistic, but it shows the vision that he has.

What Sam will do is give an ideal like "We should live in a society where skin color is as innocuous as hair color". Or an ideal like "We should aim for a society where you are as happy as possible to be reincarnated in a randomly chosen human of any race/gender/background". He is then very committed to that ideal and vision. He ends up becoming very rigid and stubborn if you push him on a few certain points, I've seen. He becomes tunnelled visioned with his logical ideals. He looks at "anti-racists", looks at the SJW's and their retarded tribalism, and completely pushes out the useful energies in that vicinity. 
 

[ParanoidAndroid]

On 21/06/2020 at 9:55 PM, Preety_India said:

I don't understand how you say this. Maybe his calm demeanor hides his inner neuroticism. Neurotic behavior is not always fly off the handle Alex Jones style behavior. It can also manifest in people who look calm on the outside but turbulent on the inside.

Sam Harris is far from what you're thinking. I followed his Twitter throughout 2016 and he was completely obsessed with Trump to the point of pathological level. He had a mental breakdown on Twitter the day Trump won.. His views on religion are extreme and phobic. All of this while calling himself a Stanford educated neuroscientist and meditator. Even an 8th grader will show more composure and maturity than him. Sorry but in my opinion, he is completely not what she shows. He puts on a calm look for people but if he was really that calm, he wouldn't be obsessively tweeting his hate on Twitter. 

. 

Surely you must admit that it was shocking when Trump won. It felt surreal. Nothing like it had ever happened before. I think what Harris has said about Trump has been spot on. This 15 minute clip from before he was elected is spot on and hilariously funny in parts. 

I think you're reading too much into Harris' personality because you don't like him. Sure, somebody can seem calm on the outside but actually be neurotic on the inside but that doesn't mean you get to claim that about every calm seeming person you don't like and I see no evidence of this with Sam Harris. He seems perfectly normal to me. I think his interest in logically dismantling religion is more to do with his most likely, predominantly stage Orange mindset than evidence of neuroticism. Is Richard Dawkins also neurotic? Is Christopher Hitchens also neurotic? Not any more so than the average person, I would say.

[Preety_India]

@ParanoidAndroid  I only said about Sam Harris. I respect Richard Dawkins and Hitchens. I wish Harris wasn't a part of the Four Horsemen clan. Seems like he wanted a launchpad in those days and he got one. He used them just like he used Majid Nawaz and Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Maybe I'm reading too much into Harris. But why not. I don't like a lot of his crass statements. He makes it look like he wants a genocide on certain races. Why am I supposed to subscribe to his brand if he divides people. I'm not the only one who criticizes Sam Harris. Many people come at him. Why would they if he didn't make controversial statements. He says things and then backpedals when he sees a strong reaction, as though he is testing how far he can go with his ideas and how much extremism the audience can handle. he is like a provocateur, to me he is a caricature who plays gimmicks and generates good money out of it. Plus I don't like the overall edgelord feel to his personality. Like his will is going to decide the fate of the world. 

I don't like his brand. Even if I maybe biased against him, it's good for me, because I am relatively insulated from his hateful toxic garbage through my hate. 

He leans on the right side and then vehemently tries in denial to portray himself as a libertarian. In fact most people in the beginning were surprised that he opposed Trump because his views were almost a low tempo version of what Trump was spewing in the campaigns. But he knows well that backing Trump is a career suicide move, so he was desperately trying to hate Trump to divert his "right wing" image. Now he uses Jordan Peterson to make money, I mean recently, going on conferences in Canada and American college halls, when he can easily hold a Skype call with Jordan and be done with the differences. But as usual Sam Harris style, he has to make it monumental like people are paying to watch a movie, buy tickets, buy his shirts, books and mugs, donate money to his foundation, pay for membership on his website and give him more financial opportunities. Nobody can see through this. People simply believe what is fed to them. He doesn't argue with people on YouTube because that won't generate money, he appeared only once on the Young Turks and probably once or twice on Dave Rubin. He tries to constantly rebrand himself by talking about a hot button topic in order to bank on public emotion and generate revenue. I can see through his behind the scenes gimmicks which people fail to see. A famous line from Jordan Peterson on Joe Rogan was how he monetized on SJWs. Well now I know why all these YouTubers are so savvy about politics. It's a money game for them. They exaggerate circumstances to arouse people. That's why I call them misinformation propaganda machine. People buy into it and they get rich and famous. Milo Yiannopoulos is another such example and several others. It is turning into a political provocation industry of sorts. Well good luck, I can subscribe to better things on YouTube, like for example Leo.. That Sam guy is a clever schmuck.

 

 

Edited June 24, 2020 by Preety_India