Why wouldn't I strive for enlightenment?

[Koeke]

I think I have a pretty good understanding of Enlightenment conceptually and (through meditation, Self-Inquiry and psychedelics) I keep noticing how (a lot of) my suffering is unnecessary and would vanish once I get enlightened. I just don't know whether this is enough. I care about truth, but honestly I just want to be happy. 

I'm just really confused atm. Is there a reason I shouldn't be on the path? I know this might seem silly, but I'm only 18 years old and on one hand there's no reason to 'achieve' Enlightenment (and there is certainly no rush), but on the other hand 'sooner rather than later' right?

 

[JosephKnecht]

Observe how many times you have used "I". Who is I?

Nothing vanishes through enlightenment but the I. 

If you want to be happy, try to define what happiness means for you? 

Enlightenment doesn't give you happiness. Enlightenment gives you Absolutely Nothing. 

[nistake]

Check out this video:

Especially from 4:20

Edited June 19, 2020 by nistake

[EnlightenmentBlog]

I discovered Enlightenment roughly around your age. I still struggle with it today. There is one thing I learned. Pursue awakening, but be sure to meet your other needs as well. Get an education, try pick-up, etc. You've got time. Live a little. There's no rush. 

[Koeke]

On 19-6-2020 at 8:05 PM, EnlightenmentBlog said:

I discovered Enlightenment roughly around your age. I still struggle with it today. There is one thing I learned. Pursue awakening, but be sure to meet your other needs as well. Get an education, try pick-up, etc. You've got time. Live a little. There's no rush. 

I did 5 meo a couple hours after I posted this. I think I realized the no self. At least to an extent. It's hard to tell based on my memory. 

So basically one of my first thoughts was that I still want sex. It was hilarious! What trips me up is who wanted sex. Nevertheless, I just wanted to say I agree with you. 

May I ask how old you are and why you're not yet enlightened? Do you have some tips to avoid your pitfalls?

[Raptorsin7]

@Koeke I'm in a similar boat as you in the sense i'm seeking enlightenment because of dissatisfaction with life and unhappniess.

I'm going all in on enlightenment and dealing with this first before i deal with other parts of my life, i'm 24, but i'm also pretty privileged so i don't know if this option is available for everyone.

I'd say find a teacher or guru to work with on a regular basis and go from there. Don't spin your wheels going the path alone. Apparently it's pretty rare to get enlightened without the aid of a teacher.

[Koeke]

34 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Koeke 

I'm going all in on enlightenment and dealing with this first before i deal with other parts of my life, 

I'dsay find a teacher or guru to work with on a regular basis and go from there. Don't spin your wheels going the path alone. Apparently it's pretty rare to get enlightened without the aid of a teacher.

What other parts? Things such as physical health, addictions, crippling (social) anxiety etc are not things you should put off. There's a long road ahead of you.

Is it really that rare to get Enlightened without a teacher? This might sound dumb but I don't think I need one.

[Raptorsin7]

@Koeke I mean stuff like finding a long term relationship, and career. 

Well are you enlightened yet? You don't think you need one but who knows how it will take you without one.

I think there's levels to awakening so my perspective could change, but I've lived life with my current unhappy state and I'm not really in a rush to get out in the world until I make some progress with my state of being.

[traveler]

On 19.6.2020 at 6:41 PM, Koeke said:

I think I have a pretty good understanding of Enlightenment conceptually and (through meditation, Self-Inquiry and psychedelics) I keep noticing how (a lot of) my suffering is unnecessary and would vanish once I get enlightened. I just don't know whether this is enough. I care about truth, but honestly I just want to be happy. 

I'm just really confused atm. Is there a reason I shouldn't be on the path? I know this might seem silly, but I'm only 18 years old and on one hand there's no reason to 'achieve' Enlightenment (and there is certainly no rush), but on the other hand 'sooner rather than later' right?

There is in reality no problem. This is already it, this is the essence, but that does nothing when heard through a filter of seperation. Happiness is already this. A shift can happen from the individualized solid reality, to freedom from need and a recognition that all is well. Notice how it's only possible to be happy now, being happy in the future is a story. There is really nothing for you to do, just be open to the possibility that happiness is here. If you keep putting happiness into the future, how will you ever actually be it? I think that there is a deep rooted belief in many that "I'm undeserved of happiness" notice that belief, notice that nothing is holding you back from being happy other than that belief. 

There is lots of stuff you can do to improve your state of mind on the relative level. Try this out: Smile. Maybe it starts of fake, but after a while you will feel a boost in happiness and feel more at ease in your body. 

[WelcometoReality]

@Koeke If you want enlightenment then strive for enlightenment. If you want something else, strive for that.

Just be clear with what you want and put it as the number one priority.

[EnlightenmentBlog]

13 hours ago, Koeke said:

May I ask how old you are and why you're not yet enlightened? Do you have some tips to avoid your pitfalls?

I'm 23. I've had breakthroughs, but I feel I have a long way still to go. Enlightenment doesn't solve your life problems. It can make them easier, but you still have to put in the work. Don't use enlightenment as an escape from life. 

All the best. Peace V

[Lenny]

@Koeke

Knowing enlightenment conceptually will never be enough. Why, because a concept of enlightenment is something that you have created. You cannot "know" enlightenment. Enlightenment is not a concept. All the things that you have ever learned about it has only been pointing to it. My "idea" of enlightenment is different to your "idea" of enlightenment.

Let's see what has happened here: you have created an idea of enlightenment which is an object of your imagination. You are then speaking about this object as if it is what enlightenment is and you are also experiencing this idea of enlightenment in your own unique way. What if enlightenment was just you as you are right now? What if you're already enlightened? You don't know what enlightenment is so it could have happened to you already and you wouldn’t know. 

If you can hold an image in your mind of enlightenment and what it will mean for you (if you have added/created a story about it), this is not enlightenment. Also, this is something that is in the way of you experiencing reality (also known as Truth, also known as enlightenment) {that which you are right now}. It's our imagination that we want to get behind (like walking behind a projector screen). Start from where your imagination arises, don't start from your imagination (your ideas about yourself and the world). You are standing on and looking from a preconceived idea about the world rather than standing from the place where your world arises. Try and abide in the latter.

Do you feel that enlightenment will pull-you-out of your youth? Do you feel it will stop you from enjoying the illusion of sex, money, etc.? Once you know Truth then the illusion also becomes Truth. The "Truth" and the "lies" are all that one Truth. Actually, lies come from Truth. Lies are born in Truth and die in Truth. And Truth can enjoy them. Not knowing Truth (not knowing who you are), is going to hinder your ability to enjoy life and its forms. Are you "allowed" to enjoy the fruits of illusion? Will you allow yourself to love?

I will try and answer your questions directly here:

1. "I'm just really confused atm. Is there a reason I shouldn't be on the path?"

Let's look at things in another light: what if your "path" was to become more loving. Each day, working at yourself by exposing ways that your mind likes to trick you out of loving others a yourself. I think we can agree that there isn't much confusion here, there is just a shit tonne fear. 

I'm not saying it wont get confusing at times. But, we can make it simple by thinking about the path as a slow process by which we expose the illusions of our own fears about ourselves and life. And, clear the slate for love to grow. 

Also, don't force yourself to "become" anything or "do" anything. You do not want to aim to become more "loving", actually. At least, not love in the way that we're speaking about it here. You want True love and the love of Truth to shine through you by what you have become after you have seen through many of your favourite concepts and ideas. If you try to "become" loving now, you are just going to be forcing what you "think" love is. Therefore, it will not be the same as True love. Basically, if you want love, you have to get out of its way. If you want enlightenment, you have to get out of its way.

When you say "I am really confused atm", what are you confused about? I would like to take a guess: you are confused because you want something. This is where the root of the confusion is coming from. Does the True Self (that which you truly are) want anything? Does it even want itself? If it wanted itself, it would be imagining itself to be something other than what it is.

I guess we could say that if the path is "your" path, as in the path of the mind, then yes, there is a good reason why you shouldn't be on it. Both the "path" and the opposite of the "path" here are your notions and mind-made ideas about what it is. Actually, you are both the path, the opposite of the path and the destination of both. When you discover that you are reality, all of it, who's to choose what you cannot be?

As for the confusion, and a way to deal with it: just watch the confusion, don't add thoughts about what it is. It is an energy which arises. Feel it in your body, feel without adding a story.

If you wish to go further, then try to become aware of the "you" trying to feel it.  You'll notice at this point you will be spewing up ideas and imagination about what "you" are and how you are being aware (this "being aware" could very well be imagination about being aware). Remember, if you can see or perceive this process, it isn't it. You want to try and go to where the "seeing" is coming from, without imagination.

2. "I know this might seem silly, but I'm only 18 years old and on one hand there's no reason to 'achieve' Enlightenment (and there is certainly no rush), but on the other hand 'sooner rather than later' right?"

It might be wise to catch this one saying "and there is certainly no rush". No rush for what? No rush to be yourself?

I have had the same thoughts as you have and I understand how they play-out on us. I have taken the same positionality of identification (this is probably a better way to put it). You are identified with this thinking process. But, this thinking, these thoughts are arising out of you. You have identified with an effect, but what is making these effects? Wouldn't you be that in which the effects are able to take place?

The mind is like a pinball machine (the ball), where it bounces off things in its environment (projected or not), and pops-out code related to the last thing it touched. We cannot stop this. It is the nature of the mind - or from what I have discovered.

Also, I would recommend to try and find your own way instead of following others (due to the issue with communication - you see at some point that words will get in the way, so to speak). If you have faith in a teacher then milk it for all it's worth. You can see in their eyes the lovingness which has come fourth from their own experience. Even if their teachings might not help you much. Now that I think about it, it's not even the teaching, it is the teacher. We are navigating through the maze of our own mind - their north is your south (remember communication issue). So, it's the love and grace of your teacher that lights the flame. You hold the torch and set the direction (well, your mind does). If your intention is to discover Truth (that Truth which you don't know and cannot see with your eyes) {but is what you already are}, then you have already been set on your way.

I hope that this helped and I am sorry if it became a little rant-y and a bit confusing at points. Just know that you are right where you need to be in your journey, but you just cannot see it. This is where a lot of the confusion is coming from. Your True self is laughing but you cannot hear it (laughing with love).

Peace dude  

Lenny

 

 

 

[Koeke]

On 22-6-2020 at 3:22 PM, Lenny said:

 

On 22-6-2020 at 3:22 PM, Lenny said:

@Koeke

If your intention is to discover Truth (that Truth which you don't know and cannot see with your eyes) {but is what you already are}, then you have already been set on your way.

 

 

Why? I can change my mind. I'm not sure if enlightenment is worth the trouble. My relationships will suffer if I commit to the path. 

 

"As for the confusion, and a way to deal with it: just watch the confusion, don't add thoughts about what it is. It is an energy which arises. Feel it in your body, feel without adding a story"

But I want to get it. I want to resolve the confusion.

 

"Just know that you are right where you need to be in your journey, but you just cannot see it. This is where a lot of the confusion is coming from. "

But there are things I should do to get closer to Truth, like Self-Inquiry etc. Can you explain how the confusion comes from this not-seeing?

 

"It might be wise to catch this one saying "and there is certainly no rush". No rush for what? No rush to be yourself?"

No rush to accelerate the path. 

 

"Do you feel that enlightenment will pull-you-out of your youth? Do you feel it will stop you from enjoying the illusion of sex, money, etc.? Once you know Truth then the illusion also becomes Truth. The "Truth" and the "lies" are all that one Truth. Actually, lies come from Truth. Lies are born in Truth and die in Truth. And Truth can enjoy them. Not knowing Truth (not knowing who you are), is going to hinder your ability to enjoy life and its forms. Are you "allowed" to enjoy the fruits of illusion? Will you allow yourself to love?"

Good point. I just want to be a dumb teenager sometimes. I know this won't really satisfy me. Haha, I feel like such a child writing this: "I want to be stupid! And I wanna know the truth! And I want sex!! But what do I need to do!?!?!" = A boiled down version of my thought process.

 

"I guess we could say that if the path is "your" path, as in the path of the mind, then yes, there is a good reason why you shouldn't be on it. Both the "path" and the opposite of the "path" here are your notions and mind-made ideas about what it is. Actually, you are both the path, the opposite of the path and the destination of both. When you discover that you are reality, all of it, who's to choose what you cannot be?"

I sorta grasp what you mean but I can barely 'play' with the understanding, again: confused. What is the reason, then that I shouldn't be on "my mind's" path?

 

"I have had the same thoughts as you have and I understand how they play-out on us."

What thoughts are you referring to? And how do they play-out?

 

Thanks for your beautiful response btw! If you don't want to respond to (all of) these questions I totally understand. I barely know if my questions actually point to the deeper cause of any of my confusions. 

 

 

[Lenny]

@Koeke

I am trying to find where the confusion is lying so that I can give you some pointers. I guess I'll try and answer your questions and see if anything comes out that is helpful.

"Why? I can change my mind. I'm not sure if enlightenment is worth the trouble. My relationships will suffer if I commit to the path."

How do you think that your relationships will suffer? Does the path look long and arduous to you? One where you have to neglect your friends and family? To turn your back on them to turn toward seeking enlightenment? Enlightenment is the easiest thing that you can do. Everything else takes effort. Enlightenment is there before everything else. We could replace the word enlightenment here with the word Truth. Truth is there before everything.

Also, what do you think when I say that you cannot know Truth? Even right now, you cannot know it. You will not arrive at Truth. You will not arrive at enlightenment. You can only "be" Truth. You can never "know" Truth. Enlightenment happens when we have resolved a separation. It happens when what you are, and what you “think” you are become one. It’s kinda like this: The idea that you have of yourself will arrive at you as Truth. What you think you were will arrive at you. You were always Truth.

Also, I don't take psychedelics and I never have (I was brought up and raised to view all drugs in a bad light and it took many years until I saw through this conditioning, but, this is still a part of my expression of body and mind). But, I have had psychedelic experiences (from my limited understanding of them). I don't want to make them seem not important for anyone’s journey and work. I can see from your first post that you do take them, which means that you have much more experience with them than I do. The way I see it, somewhere, there is an illiterate child sitting in the world, on a pile of dirt, and the Truth is still available to him (it is unfortunate that this may not be his experience though). Actually, I would say that Truth is his experience but he just doesn't know it. He is not really suffering but thinks he is. These things are very hard to convey. 

I feel that, from what I have heard from Leo and other people who have used them, that psychedelics show you what Truth is in a relative-ness way and can cause spiritual traps. E.g. there is a psychedelic taker who takes this substance, then accesses an altered state of consciousness and experience God (or reality) and then returns with a story of what happened. And points backward and says: "yeah, that's me back there. I know this. But, I'm stuck here for now because of my ego and limiting belief systems." This is where the teacher says: "But isn't the belief in just that: limiting belief systems and ego, the 'problem'?"

The movement or manifestation of energy into the thought form "I must remove my ego before I get enlightened," is actually where the ego is hiding. It's hiding in the words. Truth (that which you are) somehow gets "tricked" into being something that it's not. I think it could be that Truth loved what it saw/experiences and then started to "think" that it was what it was looking at (thoughts and other phenomena), rather than "be" what it is. Also, the mind with its limitation cannot understand something it cannot perceive. So, as soon as consciousness takes the form of mind, it gets somehow “stuck”. (I don’t know this for sure, it just seems to be heading that way in terms of my level of understanding through the combination of the pointings of spiritual teachers, contemplation and of my awakening experiences).

I don't want to cause you anymore confusion about this, if confusion is arising. I know that what I am saying is somehow being taken in somewhere, subconsciously. I want to make sure that my explanations are clear and cover many doors, so to speak (doors of understanding).

"But there are things I should do to get closer to Truth, like Self-Inquiry etc. Can you explain how the confusion comes from this not-seeing?"

Being confused about not getting this or not-seeing is arising in that which you are. In that moment, you be that which is "watching" the confusion arise. The Truth that you are doesn't bother itself with the confusion of the mind. The Truth won't endeavour to "resolve" this confusion about itself. You as Truth has watched this confusion arrive, and it will watch it pass. It will watch a seeming "you" pass as not-Truth.

I want to try and explain something here and I'll try my best. It came to me one day when I thought about and contemplated how dreams work. It seems that, in our dreams, the whole event adheres to the laws of physics and nature (to some major extent - like we don’t have crazy psychedelic experiences in our dreams about being a mushroom and having hands made of a shape we've never seen before). It's almost as if we cannot dream anything that is not within our experience or imagination. We cannot dream about something that we cannot imagine. This for me was a good take-away for how enlightenment works. We cannot "imagine" God or Truth. It's almost as if the mind (as an energy field of thought forms and images) is a closed-system which cannot perceive anything outside of itself. In the dream state this manifests as an experience of things that we can imagine. In the waking state this manifests as thoughts about our life and the world. For example, we cannot think about something that we cannot think about. We cannot imagine something that we cannot imagine. And right now, we cannot even begin to fathom a life any different to the one we’re experiencing. Why? because we're seemingly, somehow "trapped" inside the closed-system of our minds. 

In your contemplation you need to prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that that same doubt about not being that which you perceive, arises in a perceiving-ness (awareness) of that which you are (that which you cannot perceive). This doubt is arising in you as Truth. (this is very hard to convey with words lol). If we are Truth, and we cannot see Truth. Then, by inference, we are not that which we can perceive, in essence.

An effort to “get closer” to Truth is actually taking you further away. Why? Because Truth is what you already are. The seeming “movement” of “you” getting closer to Truth is happening inside you, you as Truth. Can you see where confusion comes?

Here we can replace Truth with reality, God, awareness, consciousness.. Nothing.

You sense doubt rising from this nothingness. It takes form and builds into a more coherent form of thought about doubt and how you aren't already everything you ever needed to be. This form can take the shape of "I'm not good enough" and "I'm confused about life and how it all fits together" and "I want to work this out so that I can have a more fulfilling life", etc.

When you know what you are you still see confusion, but you can see it for what it is. It doesn't move you from what you are. You are not "in it", so to speak. The confusion and the one confused is a "happening" or "event" that happens outside of you as Truth. From an absolute standpoint, we could say that the event happens outside of and inside of you. Maybe a better way to put it is this: the confusion and the one confused is only but a piece of what you are. It's not the whole. It is not you in essence.

"Good point. I just want to be a dumb teenager sometimes. I know this won't really satisfy me. Haha, I feel like such a child writing this: "I want to be stupid! And I wanna know the truth! And I want sex!! But what do I need to do!?!?!" = A boiled down version of my thought process."

Hahah I know what you mean. I guess we can always let the ego seemingly eclipse what we are. Here when I say ego I just mean that which we think we are. When you say "I know this won't really satisfy me" I can see from this that you will probably continue to strive for enlightenment (try not to build any ideas about what enlightenment is). Instead of striving for enlightenment you can go the other way (toward openness and lovingness). I like to see the movement out of ego as moving along a line, on the far right is faith and openness and going against all beliefs and opening up your arms and love to life in all of its ways. On the far left, is going inward to find what we are through self-enquiry (both directions have their own practices). Ultimately, they take us to the same place. Think about this, it is just as hard for you to open up your arms to life and love it limitlessly (without end) as it is for you to get enlightened through discovery of the Self through self-enquiry. In both cases, something needs to "die". Because in both cases, we think that we will die. If I open up my arms and take in the world for everything that it is and give myself to it completely, if I give myself to God, I might die. Similarly, if I look inward and try to discover what is really here, I might see what I'm not, and I might die.

"I sorta grasp what you mean but I can barely 'play' with the understanding, again: confused. What is the reason, then that I shouldn't be on "my mind's" path?"

What I wrote there is very advanced in terms of understanding. I would say don't try to work it out. Don't try to place or force my story of the path and how you are the path over what is here and now. In Truth, I am both wrong and right at the same time. So, don't listen to me (in a way of trying to apply it in any way). See how far you come in your enlightenment work and then when you see it you will remember what was said here and it will serve as kind of like a confirmation of your findings. You cannot say that you are that plastic bag blowing in the wind across the road, yet. So, don't try to force it. Try to prove or disprove it. A forcing or effort in the direction of trying to prove or live what I am saying will make things harder and add layers of confusion - if it is not first a part of your own experience. Find this to be a part of your experience. Honestly, in a way, it is so simple that it is too difficult to understand. It is so simple that understanding is not needed, and so, trying to understand it takes us away from it. Trying to understand you will take you away from you. Why? Because you can never understand you. You are too big.

Hahah I just see a massive inconsistency and contradiction here: where I wrote "What I wrote here is very advanced in terms of understanding" and then I write "Understanding is not needed". See, this is why it's so hard to describe it and also to find it lol.

Maybe it would have been better if I wrote: "What I wrote here is very advanced in terms of experience/knowing/along the path". We cannot understand that which we need to experience. Sometimes we cannot understand that which we have experienced, period. 

"What thoughts are you referring to? And how do they play-out?"

I tend to be very "projecty" in these cases. I cannot experience exactly what you are going through. I can only follow a "compass" of sorts - through a lens of my personal conditioning and what I know. Which is hopefully structured in such a way that it can break through boundaries of communication.

The thoughts that I am referring to are: 1. thoughts at all, 2. Thoughts in terms of there being "no rush", 3. Confusion (lots of it, feeling stuck, feelings and thoughts expressing themselves as every shape and pulling me in every direction, counter-thoughts, etc. Basically the whole package of phycological suffering, both subtle and gross forms). Again, I can only speak here from my personal, relative experience of suffering. Maybe we can call them "negative" thoughts, and ones that have no grounding in reality.

The thoughts play-out as a type of poking-ness at "I" as ego. The thing that goes unnoticed is that this "poking-ness" and the mind's incompatibility with its own projections, is stirring up enough mud in the water to cause this type of confusion. This confusion isn’t no ordinary confusion. It's not a confusion about what to have for dinner (although it can manifest as this if you don't like the idea of "indecisiveness"). This confusion is an existential confusion. Served to us by God through the wonder of evolution.

Don't try to get rid of the confusion. Pour your love onto this confusion. This confusion is serving you and will be a catalyst for your spiritual growth. 

I hope that this has helped and I am sorry if I caused more confusion. Actually, I might try and simplify this into one expression so that it'll dot the i's and cross the t's, potentially.

You are that undisturbed presence. You have never been touched. You are perfect. Only the things that you are not can change. Nothing has ever moved you from this place. You cannot be defined by your mind. A thought can only wish that it can know you. It is so hard for you to see because God loves you now, without being able to see. I am with you.

Peace dude  

Lenny

[Aaron p]

@Koeke in my opinion, the greatest mistake would be to accidentally waste 5 or 10 valuable years of your life getting...alright...results with weak practices and no determination.

It's literally scary how little people here focus on the actual practices that cause you to make progress. Nearly nobody focuses on the practices and frankly I don't think leo anticipates this problem tactically enough. 

Edited June 24, 2020 by Aaron p

[Koeke]

On 24-6-2020 at 5:13 PM, Aaron p said:

@Koeke in my opinion, the greatest mistake would be to accidentally waste 5 or 10 valuable years of your life getting...alright...results with weak practices and no determination.

It's literally scary how little people here focus on the actual practices that cause you to make progress. Nearly nobody focuses on the practices and frankly I don't think leo anticipates this problem tactically enough. 

 

Yeah, I'm practicing diligently!

How do you conclude that almost nobody focuses on the practice? 

On 24-6-2020 at 5:13 PM, Aaron p said:

@Koeke in my opinion, the greatest mistake would be to accidentally waste 5 or 10 valuable years of your life getting...alright...results with weak practices and no determination.

It's literally scary how little people here focus on the actual practices that cause you to make progress. Nearly nobody focuses on the practices and frankly I don't think leo anticipates this problem tactically enough. 

 

[Koeke]

On 24-6-2020 at 4:42 PM, Lenny said:

@Koeke

I am trying to find where the confusion is lying so that I can give you some pointers. I guess I'll try and answer your questions and see if anything comes out that is helpful.

"Why? I can change my mind. I'm not sure if enlightenment is worth the trouble. My relationships will suffer if I commit to the path."

How do you think that your relationships will suffer? Does the path look long and arduous to you? One where you have to neglect your friends and family? To turn your back on them to turn toward seeking enlightenment? Enlightenment is the easiest thing that you can do. Everything else takes effort. Enlightenment is there before everything else. We could replace the word enlightenment here with the word Truth. Truth is there before everything.

Also, what do you think when I say that you cannot know Truth? Even right now, you cannot know it. You will not arrive at Truth. You will not arrive at enlightenment. You can only "be" Truth. You can never "know" Truth. Enlightenment happens when we have resolved a separation. It happens when what you are, and what you “think” you are become one. It’s kinda like this: The idea that you have of yourself will arrive at you as Truth. What you think you were will arrive at you. You were always Truth.

Also, I don't take psychedelics and I never have (I was brought up and raised to view all drugs in a bad light and it took many years until I saw through this conditioning, but, this is still a part of my expression of body and mind). But, I have had psychedelic experiences (from my limited understanding of them). I don't want to make them seem not important for anyone’s journey and work. I can see from your first post that you do take them, which means that you have much more experience with them than I do. The way I see it, somewhere, there is an illiterate child sitting in the world, on a pile of dirt, and the Truth is still available to him (it is unfortunate that this may not be his experience though). Actually, I would say that Truth is his experience but he just doesn't know it. He is not really suffering but thinks he is. These things are very hard to convey. 

I feel that, from what I have heard from Leo and other people who have used them, that psychedelics show you what Truth is in a relative-ness way and can cause spiritual traps. E.g. there is a psychedelic taker who takes this substance, then accesses an altered state of consciousness and experience God (or reality) and then returns with a story of what happened. And points backward and says: "yeah, that's me back there. I know this. But, I'm stuck here for now because of my ego and limiting belief systems." This is where the teacher says: "But isn't the belief in just that: limiting belief systems and ego, the 'problem'?"

The movement or manifestation of energy into the thought form "I must remove my ego before I get enlightened," is actually where the ego is hiding. It's hiding in the words. Truth (that which you are) somehow gets "tricked" into being something that it's not. I think it could be that Truth loved what it saw/experiences and then started to "think" that it was what it was looking at (thoughts and other phenomena), rather than "be" what it is. Also, the mind with its limitation cannot understand something it cannot perceive. So, as soon as consciousness takes the form of mind, it gets somehow “stuck”. (I don’t know this for sure, it just seems to be heading that way in terms of my level of understanding through the combination of the pointings of spiritual teachers, contemplation and of my awakening experiences).

I don't want to cause you anymore confusion about this, if confusion is arising. I know that what I am saying is somehow being taken in somewhere, subconsciously. I want to make sure that my explanations are clear and cover many doors, so to speak (doors of understanding).

"But there are things I should do to get closer to Truth, like Self-Inquiry etc. Can you explain how the confusion comes from this not-seeing?"

Being confused about not getting this or not-seeing is arising in that which you are. In that moment, you be that which is "watching" the confusion arise. The Truth that you are doesn't bother itself with the confusion of the mind. The Truth won't endeavour to "resolve" this confusion about itself. You as Truth has watched this confusion arrive, and it will watch it pass. It will watch a seeming "you" pass as not-Truth.

I want to try and explain something here and I'll try my best. It came to me one day when I thought about and contemplated how dreams work. It seems that, in our dreams, the whole event adheres to the laws of physics and nature (to some major extent - like we don’t have crazy psychedelic experiences in our dreams about being a mushroom and having hands made of a shape we've never seen before). It's almost as if we cannot dream anything that is not within our experience or imagination. We cannot dream about something that we cannot imagine. This for me was a good take-away for how enlightenment works. We cannot "imagine" God or Truth. It's almost as if the mind (as an energy field of thought forms and images) is a closed-system which cannot perceive anything outside of itself. In the dream state this manifests as an experience of things that we can imagine. In the waking state this manifests as thoughts about our life and the world. For example, we cannot think about something that we cannot think about. We cannot imagine something that we cannot imagine. And right now, we cannot even begin to fathom a life any different to the one we’re experiencing. Why? because we're seemingly, somehow "trapped" inside the closed-system of our minds. 

In your contemplation you need to prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that that same doubt about not being that which you perceive, arises in a perceiving-ness (awareness) of that which you are (that which you cannot perceive). This doubt is arising in you as Truth. (this is very hard to convey with words lol). If we are Truth, and we cannot see Truth. Then, by inference, we are not that which we can perceive, in essence.

An effort to “get closer” to Truth is actually taking you further away. Why? Because Truth is what you already are. The seeming “movement” of “you” getting closer to Truth is happening inside you, you as Truth. Can you see where confusion comes?

Here we can replace Truth with reality, God, awareness, consciousness.. Nothing.

You sense doubt rising from this nothingness. It takes form and builds into a more coherent form of thought about doubt and how you aren't already everything you ever needed to be. This form can take the shape of "I'm not good enough" and "I'm confused about life and how it all fits together" and "I want to work this out so that I can have a more fulfilling life", etc.

When you know what you are you still see confusion, but you can see it for what it is. It doesn't move you from what you are. You are not "in it", so to speak. The confusion and the one confused is a "happening" or "event" that happens outside of you as Truth. From an absolute standpoint, we could say that the event happens outside of and inside of you. Maybe a better way to put it is this: the confusion and the one confused is only but a piece of what you are. It's not the whole. It is not you in essence.

"Good point. I just want to be a dumb teenager sometimes. I know this won't really satisfy me. Haha, I feel like such a child writing this: "I want to be stupid! And I wanna know the truth! And I want sex!! But what do I need to do!?!?!" = A boiled down version of my thought process."

Hahah I know what you mean. I guess we can always let the ego seemingly eclipse what we are. Here when I say ego I just mean that which we think we are. When you say "I know this won't really satisfy me" I can see from this that you will probably continue to strive for enlightenment (try not to build any ideas about what enlightenment is). Instead of striving for enlightenment you can go the other way (toward openness and lovingness). I like to see the movement out of ego as moving along a line, on the far right is faith and openness and going against all beliefs and opening up your arms and love to life in all of its ways. On the far left, is going inward to find what we are through self-enquiry (both directions have their own practices). Ultimately, they take us to the same place. Think about this, it is just as hard for you to open up your arms to life and love it limitlessly (without end) as it is for you to get enlightened through discovery of the Self through self-enquiry. In both cases, something needs to "die". Because in both cases, we think that we will die. If I open up my arms and take in the world for everything that it is and give myself to it completely, if I give myself to God, I might die. Similarly, if I look inward and try to discover what is really here, I might see what I'm not, and I might die.

"I sorta grasp what you mean but I can barely 'play' with the understanding, again: confused. What is the reason, then that I shouldn't be on "my mind's" path?"

What I wrote there is very advanced in terms of understanding. I would say don't try to work it out. Don't try to place or force my story of the path and how you are the path over what is here and now. In Truth, I am both wrong and right at the same time. So, don't listen to me (in a way of trying to apply it in any way). See how far you come in your enlightenment work and then when you see it you will remember what was said here and it will serve as kind of like a confirmation of your findings. You cannot say that you are that plastic bag blowing in the wind across the road, yet. So, don't try to force it. Try to prove or disprove it. A forcing or effort in the direction of trying to prove or live what I am saying will make things harder and add layers of confusion - if it is not first a part of your own experience. Find this to be a part of your experience. Honestly, in a way, it is so simple that it is too difficult to understand. It is so simple that understanding is not needed, and so, trying to understand it takes us away from it. Trying to understand you will take you away from you. Why? Because you can never understand you. You are too big.

Hahah I just see a massive inconsistency and contradiction here: where I wrote "What I wrote here is very advanced in terms of understanding" and then I write "Understanding is not needed". See, this is why it's so hard to describe it and also to find it lol.

Maybe it would have been better if I wrote: "What I wrote here is very advanced in terms of experience/knowing/along the path". We cannot understand that which we need to experience. Sometimes we cannot understand that which we have experienced, period. 

"What thoughts are you referring to? And how do they play-out?"

I tend to be very "projecty" in these cases. I cannot experience exactly what you are going through. I can only follow a "compass" of sorts - through a lens of my personal conditioning and what I know. Which is hopefully structured in such a way that it can break through boundaries of communication.

The thoughts that I am referring to are: 1. thoughts at all, 2. Thoughts in terms of there being "no rush", 3. Confusion (lots of it, feeling stuck, feelings and thoughts expressing themselves as every shape and pulling me in every direction, counter-thoughts, etc. Basically the whole package of phycological suffering, both subtle and gross forms). Again, I can only speak here from my personal, relative experience of suffering. Maybe we can call them "negative" thoughts, and ones that have no grounding in reality.

The thoughts play-out as a type of poking-ness at "I" as ego. The thing that goes unnoticed is that this "poking-ness" and the mind's incompatibility with its own projections, is stirring up enough mud in the water to cause this type of confusion. This confusion isn’t no ordinary confusion. It's not a confusion about what to have for dinner (although it can manifest as this if you don't like the idea of "indecisiveness"). This confusion is an existential confusion. Served to us by God through the wonder of evolution.

Don't try to get rid of the confusion. Pour your love onto this confusion. This confusion is serving you and will be a catalyst for your spiritual growth. 

I hope that this has helped and I am sorry if I caused more confusion. Actually, I might try and simplify this into one expression so that it'll dot the i's and cross the t's, potentially.

You are that undisturbed presence. You have never been touched. You are perfect. Only the things that you are not can change. Nothing has ever moved you from this place. You cannot be defined by your mind. A thought can only wish that it can know you. It is so hard for you to see because God loves you now, without being able to see. I am with you.

Peace dude  

Lenny

Thanks for your love! I'll try receiving it fully without blocking it!