psychedelic states through meditation?

[Spiral Wizard]

(5:38)

Can anybody confirm that it is possible to reach (all) psychedelic states through meditation? If so, how long will it take?

 

I heard deep meditation can perpetuate your meditation progress, big time. Is that true? In this podcast, he claims that you should meditate (do nothing technique) 1h per day for at least 60 days to even start the art of doing nothing. 

 

(5:50)

Here he acknowledges the power of psychedelics but explained why he still prefers meditation. 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Spiral Wizard

[Leo Gura]

44 minutes ago, Spiral Wizard said:

Can anybody confirm that it is possible to reach (all) psychedelic states through meditation?

I can confirm that it is certainly impossible.

You ain't gonna reach a salvia or DPT state even after 40 years of meditation.

Psychedelics states are so intense, powerful, and diverse that you will never access all of them without pumping your brain full of new chemicals.

Through meditation perhaps you can access 1% of the full range of psychedelic states.

This doesn't make meditation bad. It's still an important practice. But don't fool yourself into thinking you'll access a DMT, DPT, or saliva breakthrough via meditation. You will not. Also, don't confuse ego-death, samadhi, and awakening with the full range of possible states of consciousness. The range of states that consciousness can take is astounding in its diversity and intensity.

[bazera]

@Leo Gura What is the value of meditation then? If we seek understanding, why should we sit and meditate for hours when we can just take a psychedelic?

At this point, what do you think is the main reason for doing meditation?

[Enlightenment]

47 minutes ago, Spiral Wizard said:

Can anybody confirm that it is possible to reach (all) psychedelic states through meditation? If so, how long will it take?

 

It's not. Where is the line between psychedelics and other drugs? It's imaginary

You can't reach meth levels of alertness by some breathing exercises, why would you assume you can reach psychedelic states without alerting your neurotransmitters?

Edited June 19, 2020 by Enlightenment

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, bazera said:

@Leo Gura What is the value of meditation then? If we seek understanding, why should we sit and meditate for hours when we can just take a psychedelic?

Meditation still has enormous value because you cannot be hopped up on psychedelics all the time. Psychedelics should be done rarely. Like 1-5% of your life. The other 95%+ of the time you will be sober and you'll want to boost your sober state with manual techniques like meditation or yoga.

Regardless, you need to develop the ability to just sit and do nothing for 60 minutes straight, and to concentrate your mind for 60 mins straight. These are crucial skills to develop for anyone doing self-actualization.

[allislove]

Naval is amazing guy, I was sticking to him before Leo in 2016-2017  

Not Meditation VS Psychedelics → Meditation + Psychedelics

Meditation deepens your trips  

[JosephKnecht]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

3 hours ago, Spiral Wizard said:

Can anybody confirm that it is possible to reach (all) psychedelic states through meditation?

I can confirm that it is certainly impossible.

It is not impossible, just very unlikely. 

I know a person personally that can access non-dual states without any substances and only through meditation. 

However, this person is highly spiritually gifted. 

He can remember many previous lives, is extremely intelligent, and has deep intuitive knowledge of astrology. I never understood the astrology fascination. 

Given that these states are completely subjective, I can not guarantee that he has achieved a level of awareness of the Buddha, Jesus, or Leo . 

I only know that he has achieved enlightenment without psychedelics.

So not impossible, just very unlikely.   

[Leo Gura]

@JosephKnecht I wasn't talking about enlightenment. Obviously enlightenment is possible without psychedelics.

But enlightenment does not give you access to anywhere near the full range of states that consciousness is capable of. An enlightened person cannot access what DMT or salvia can give one access to, for example.

[Applegarden]

@Leo Gura But what if you get to the point of activating certin parts of you that makes you into a powerhouse, for example what you say becomes true and really intense things like that, or maybe manipulation of your elemental setup or smth, that1% gets to 100% very fast, but i am just speculating and have no idea how to get there.

But i have had some weird experiences completely sober, where i for the first time felt that my energies from heart chakra is realy flowing somewhere in a way/where i never experienced before. Really beautiful and altering experience, however it was very short. Tho i haven't tried any phychedelics and i don't have a grasp on what it is that they do.

 

[JosephKnecht]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But enlightenment does not give you access to anywhere near the full range of states that consciousness is capable of. An enlightened person cannot access what DMT or salvia can give one access to, for example.

Can only DMT produce a DMT state of consciousness? 

Yes, DMT is the easiest way to produce that state, but there might be other ways to get to that state.

Since you have been taking psychedelics for a while, if you compare your state when you took DMT for the first time and your last time, you have to admit that there is a difference in your state of experience. So even the same substance does not produce the same state of experience. There is something else that varies the experimental result. 

In essence, I agree with you, but disagreements are more fun.  

[Spiral Wizard]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I can confirm that it is certainly impossible.

You ain't gonna reach a salvia or DPT state even after 40 years of meditation.

@Leo Gura how do you know that? You are not even 40 years old lol

You and Martin Ball mentioned that even though you did not take any 5-MeO-DMT for days (or weeks) you continued tripping your balls off. Maybe there are ways to crack your natural chemical gates open... Whether it is through 30-day DMT retreats, deep meditation or lucid dreaming, do you really know what is possible?

The same way N,N-DMT increased in potency for you (after 5-MeO), meditation could become your next big thing.

 

Some even claim that there are yogis who can consciously/deliberately induce psychedelic like states. Psychedelics on the other hand throw you into an almost uncontrollable experience. 

[Applegarden]

@Spiral Wizard Yes, and i also tend to think that, the main force is the consciousness which translates to the energies and energies translate to the body, making the secretion of chemicals responsible for the casual bliss that every meditator experiences. But to access these states maybe the body needs to be very healthy, however again, after some point it has nothing to do with biology.
I always wonder, why doesn't chopped legs/arms grow. The intelligence certainly is there because it made it grow when you were little, i am really prone to belive that you can access it to really heal yourself.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Applegarden

[James123]

@Spiral Wizard in order to reach psychedelic state, you have to give up everything and meditate for years. Normal human body and mind will be burn out staying that level of consciousness. Don’t forget that you are experiencing human body as awareness, human body is limited, but you are limitless. You cant be limitless in limited body, however you can be pure person as awareness. I have experienced universal mind through meditation, there is no way you can behave as a person or human, i experience Mahasamadhi glimpses (you are not aware of body or life, just you exist as nothing), i have experienced non duality through meditation ( i was just drinking water, I couldn’t eat anything or remember to eat). 

Edited June 19, 2020 by James123

[kireet]

@Leo Gura can you concentrate your mind on something for 60 minutes straight? If so, then I think that your ability to manifest a thought would be considerably greater than most of humans?

[Nahm]

@Spiral Wizard

States only appear to come and go. Meditation is you. You never come & go.

You never reach a “state”, anymore than you walk, talk, move, or think. 

[allislove]

@Nahm is there some duality? changing vs permanent ?

 

EDIT: you edited message, now it's clear, thanks ?

Edited June 19, 2020 by dimitri

[Applegarden]

@Nahm I have noticed these statements as a dead end on this forum to any topic, almost to the point it makes me think that there is nothing worth exploring other than keeping yourself quiet. It creatives a narrative, at least in my mind, that the individual identity i carry is bad and HAS TO BE ELIMINATED ASAP and that these topics shouldn't be mentioned, discussed about even, because they are useless, because everything percieved comes and goes... I would like to hear your perspective on what makes you say that what i might be misunderestanding. I also immediately know you are wanting to respond me with, no, it is not bad, nothing is good or bad, its just the projection of your ego.  I don't know, my projection is that it is a cheap, desperate spiritual solution "Mooji kinda teaching" and various other teachers too, don't dwelve into this fucking garbage "Maya", but somehow enjoy your responsibilities and maybe even manifest what you want (god forbid) while getting enlightened?? without becoming a monk? shocking ((yeye, no need to go anywhere, i am you and you are I, so lets do.... what exactly??)) Sorry for my rant, but this was on my heart.

[James123]

19 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Spiral Wizard

States only appear to come and go. Meditation is you. You never come & go.

You never reach a “state”, anymore than you walk, talk, move, or think. 

Empty mind   nothingness  

[Nahm]

@Applegarden

I suppose one’s liberation is another’s dead end...?

Not exactly sure what you’re asking.

[Nak Khid]

In Nondual traditions hallucinations are considered to be delusions,   

forms of Maya in Advaita Vedanta and Makyo in Zen