tier 2 approach to communicating with blue people

[TrustTheProcess]

Hey y'all,

So, I used to be that one green dude would bully his blue relatives at the thanksgiving dinner table.

As I am moving up to late green/early yellow, I am realizing how foolish I was. 

I am getting pretty good at framing green in a way that orange can digest. I can vividly recall how I thought at stage orange and how I was able to see the limitations of orange for myself, so I think that this helps. I have gotten some of my orange friends(young college kids) to start to see the truth in green and even open up to the progressive movement. 

My question is... How can you help blue evolve to higher stages? Is it possible to package green(like Bernie Sanders) in a way that blue would understand? Would you first have to sell orange to blue? If so, how would you do that? Sometimes, it really feels like I am talking to an npc when I talk to a blue person(all tier 1s seem like npcs to an extent tbh, but still orange and green at least respect logical arguments and seem to think less rigidly). This could be due to the fact that I have evolved from blue so long ago and feel more disconnected from that paradigm. I get where they are coming from and their value systems and world views. Just wondering how a stage yellow person would try to work with blue and attempt to move them up the spiral. 

Edited June 19, 2020 by louhad

[Forestluv]

In terms of politics. . . two words. . . Hillary Clinton. Green progressives are no fan of Hilary Clinton. Green also has major issues with neoliberalism and corporate Democrats. Blue often lumps corporate democrats (orange) with progressives (green). My parents are Blue and we have a lot of overlap criticizing Orange. This can open a lot of doors. For example, they will go off on how corrupt the Clinton’s charity was. Rather than defending the Clinton’s and saying “Well, wuttabout Trump’s charities?”, I’m like “Yup, the Clinton’s charity was corrupt”. When they go off on how Democrats are hypocrites and paid off by lobbyists, I don’t respond by defending corporate Democrats and saying “wuttabout Republicans”. I’m like “Yup, politicians that are bought off by lobbyists suck”. I can even pile on with lots of corrupt corporate democrats. And this opens the door to someone like Bernie Sanders. I can be like “I totally agree with you there, that’s why I like politicians like Bernie Sanders. He doesn’t take any money from lobbyists or corporations. He is free to speak his mind and fight for people, rather than powerful billionaires and CEOs”. (Blue isn’t tied to billionaires and corporate CEOs like orange is). . . Generally my blue parents concede that Bernie seems like a good guy, yet he’s a socialist and his proposals are too expensive”. Then I could mention something like M4A and how the U.S. is the only developed country without M4A and that it would actually be cheaper than our current system. . . However, there are lots of traps I need to avoid. For example, when discussing M4A I would need to be careful about how to handle “why should I pay for the health care of lazy unemployed people?” and if undocumented people should get M4A. Stronger resonance would be things like “Billionaire health care CEOs are making billions in profits from copays and deductibles we pay”, “Pharmaceuticals CEOs are making billions off of over charging us. Prescription drug prices are outrageous”. Blue is not tied to corporations making millions. I also mention how the pharmaceutical companies created the Opioid crisis to profit and how my employer has leverage over me because they own my health care. I can’t leave my job to freelance because I would lose my healthcare.

This kind of stuff generally resonates with blue. 

[Apparition of Jack]

First of all, ask yourself what is it that each stage values, and then see if you can reframe your argument to better fit within those values.

Take universal healthcare for instance. A Green argument for universal healthcare is that no one deserves to go bankrupt (or even die) because they can’t afford healthcare. However, this argument falls on deaf ears to Blue and Orange people because their circle of concern isn’t large enough. If they hear that, they’ll just think “well that’s life, tough shit” and not think about it any further.

So instead, you could sell universal healthcare using Blue and Orange values. These stages view fiscal responsibility as important and prefer policies that make it easier to conduct business, so you could sell it by saying that it removes a huge unnecessary burden on businesses who currently have to pay for their employees health insurance. It’s basically a tax on business that wouldn’t exist if a large number public health services existed. Hiring and firing employees would be much more simple which would make businesses more competitive. This is something they can understand yet is still advocating a stage Green policy.

 

Basically, get good at understanding what each stage values and doesn’t value and sell your ideas using that language. Also don’t forget that some people just don’t want to change. Some people will be stuck in their stage their whole life and that’s ok. You just shouldn’t waste your time on them.

[Average Investor]

You would have to get an idea if they are even open to the idea of moving up the spiral or not. You would want to see if they are open, arrested, or closed in their beliefs. People might be closed in one area and open in a another. They would also be more open to things in stage orange and not in stage blue. You would want to ask yourself why you want to move them in the first place though?

Maybe instead of changing them learn to approach them better as they are. 

2 hours ago, louhad said:

package green(like Bernie Sanders) in a way that blue would understand?

They would be much more receptive to orange. Two steps ahead might be a large leap for someone. Politcally they could have orange views that might allow them to potential be receptive to it if they are open. 

I have to admit as I move further up the spiral it is well worth it. The problem with focusing on others so much is that you will end up not getting in more growth yourself. One of the best ways to use this is to move yourself up the spiral. Now there is a good need for spiral wizards out there, so not saying that is not of use. Realistically though we need all of the people in tier one too, so there is no harm in having a diverse bunch even if you view one way as better than another. 

 

[TrustTheProcess]

@Serotoninluv @Apparition of Jack Thanks for the advice y'all!

[TrustTheProcess]

1 hour ago, Average Investor said:

I have to admit as I move further up the spiral it is well worth it. The problem with focusing on others so much is that you will end up not getting in more growth yourself. One of the best ways to use this is to move yourself up the spiral. Now there is a good need for spiral wizards out there, so not saying that is not of use. Realistically though we need all of the people in tier one too, so there is no harm in having a diverse bunch even if you view one way as better than another. 

 

I just rewatched Leo's stage green vid. I think what I'm trying to do is turn more people in society green simply because of my ego and I think green is "better". I am realizing that while I am getting better at dissecting the limitations of green on paper, in practice, I still have a shit ton of green impulses. Imma focus on being honest with myself and actively work harder to become yellow. thanks homie?

[supremeyingyang]

@louhad

A little Offtopic, but on Family. Ignore if that is not interesting to you.

I thought a lot about bigger Family Gatherings and 'my Path'. There is so little we have in common any more. Problem are: Disdain of Learning, Debt, way too much Alcohol, criticism, single mindedness...
If I would be honest in every third conversation I would have to drop a Bomb.Everyones like 'Damn, why are you so rude?'.  For example people complain of lack of Health and have Diabetes BUT eat shit tons of Candy. Or they complain about a money or job problem (will there a job?) BUT buy a big, new fancy car on debt. Or a House. I could go on forever, I think this is Blue/Orange bragging: Look how kewl the appearance of my life is.

I just don't know weather I have to don't go there any more or If I'm the glimpse of what is possible for the little Ones there.

[Parththakkar12]

6 hours ago, louhad said:

Hey y'all,

So, I used to be that one green dude would bully his blue relatives at the thanksgiving dinner table.

As I am moving up to late green/early yellow, I am realizing how foolish I was. 

I am getting pretty good at framing green in a way that orange can digest. I can vividly recall how I thought at stage orange and how I was able to see the limitations of orange for myself, so I think that this helps. I have gotten some of my orange friends(young college kids) to start to see the truth in green and even open up to the progressive movement. 

My question is... How can you help blue evolve to higher stages? Is it possible to package green(like Bernie Sanders) in a way that blue would understand? Would you first have to sell orange to blue? If so, how would you do that? Sometimes, it really feels like I am talking to an npc when I talk to a blue person(all tier 1s seem like npcs to an extent tbh, but still orange and green at least respect logical arguments and seem to think less rigidly). This could be due to the fact that I have evolved from blue so long ago and feel more disconnected from that paradigm. I get where they are coming from and their value systems and world views. Just wondering how a stage yellow person would try to work with blue and attempt to move them up the spiral. 

Nice question.

Check out the thread on this subforum titled 'Is India really a democracy'. I've done some in-depth research on Stage Blue psychology/inner workings of the mind and I've posted it there.

Blue still triggers me. I, tbh, don't really want to have anything to do with Stage Blue people, i.e. people whose egos cling to Blue. The issue with them is they don't want to evolve, their survival strategy is to cling to the status-quo. They will play fair and unfair to do that. If you're stuck with Stage Blue and want to extricate yourself from that situation, my posts will really help you.

[Average Investor]

@louhad It's a trap that is easy to fall into. Be aware of not wanting to associate with others because of their spiral level too. Especially in green this is a trap that is prominent. Blue and orange won't want to hear it anyway haha. Good luck to you!