Do You Really Want Enlightenment?

[Erik]

As Jed Mckenna said truth realization is a booby prize. Do you really want to lose yourself and find out that you do not exist, and that no one have ever existed? Is there a possibility that you will not want to interact with people once you become enlightened? Maybe you will want to completely isolate yourself from other people? Do you really want to experience void and nothingness? Will you still be able to enjoy the activities you once enjoyed?  Didn´t Jed Mckenna say that many people that become enlightened isolate themselves and keep their mouth shut about the whole thing? That they become lazy because there is no desire to become anything at all or to improve yourself.

"I think the bubble is a magnificent amusement park, and leaving it is a damn silly thing to do, unless you absolutely must" - Jed Mckenna

Steven Norquist said that if you have a good life in the "dream stat" with wife and kids etc, then it is stupid to become enlightened because you might become completely detached from them.

 

What´s your guys thoughts on this? Have any other teachers talked about this? I´m still a novice on the topic

 

 

Edited July 20, 2016 by Erik
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[Flicker_boy]

bro, no one is forcing you to do this

 there's nothing wrong with the amusement park

[Psychonaut]

Enlightenment, no enlightenment, same.

[Flicker_boy]

who the hell even wants unconditional happiness and the end of suffering. fuck that

[charlie2dogs]

1 hour ago, Erik said:

As Jed Mckenna said truth realization is a booby prize. Do you really want to lose yourself and find out that you do not exist, and that no one have ever existed? Is there a possibility that you will not want to interact with people once you become enlightened? Maybe you will want to completely isolate yourself from other people? Do you really want to experience void and nothingness? Will you still be able to enjoy the activities you once enjoyed?  Didn´t Jed Mckenna say that many people that become enlightened isolate themselves and keep their mouth shut about the whole thing? That they become lazy because there is no desire to become anything at all or to improve yourself.

"I think the bubble is a magnificent amusement park, and leaving it is a damn silly thing to do, unless you absolutely must" - Jed Mckenna

Steven Norquist said that if you have a good life in the "dream stat" with wife and kids etc, then it is stupid to become enlightened because you might become completely detached from them.

 

What´s your guys thoughts on this? Have any other teachers talked about this? I´m still a novice on the topic

 

 

if jed said those things you better find you a new teacher before you become more lost than you are .

[Erik]

1 minute ago, charlie2dogs said:

if jed said those things you better find you a new teacher before you become more lost than you are .

Unless you are enlightened yourself, how can you know it is so great? We don´t really know. Steven Norquist also said something along the same lines. You can´t predict how enlightenment will turn out for yourself. You can´t imagine what it´s like until you have taken the step for yourself.

[charlie2dogs]

you are exactly right only the self realized know what they are talking about because they have the experience, most is just hearsay, speculation, assumptions, false belief systems, intellectualizing  of things not understood.  and you never really understand this until after.

[electroBeam]

Deciding to become enlightened, is like deciding to live on a new planet that you have no idea about.

It could be isolated, baron, extreme conditions, unhabitable

or it could be a beautiful utopia with trees, forests, oxygen, food, etc

If you decide to go onto the new planet, you may die, or you may be in the most beautiful place in the world. 

BUT if you decide to not take the chance to go to this new planet, then its guaranteed that you will never be on a heavenly planet.

 

In the past, humanity has had to take risks to get to great places, taking the risk to travel to the US, Australia, etc. And for one person in society, like you, you will have to do the same with enlightenment

[Azrael]

10 hours ago, Lorenzo Engel said:

who the hell even wants unconditional happiness and the end of suffering. fuck that

Find me the one who does, and I slap the shit outta him.

[charlie2dogs]

4 hours ago, electroBeam said:

Deciding to become enlightened, is like deciding to live on a new planet that you have no idea about.

It could be isolated, baron, extreme conditions, unhabitable

or it could be a beautiful utopia with trees, forests, oxygen, food, etc

If you decide to go onto the new planet, you may die, or you may be in the most beautiful place in the world. 

BUT if you decide to not take the chance to go to this new planet, then its guaranteed that you will never be on a heavenly planet.

 

In the past, humanity has had to take risks to get to great places, taking the risk to travel to the US, Australia, etc. And for one person in society, like you, you will have to do the same with enlightenment

are you telling me that all these opinions on this forum about what enlightenment is dont mean anything? surely that cant be true, surely all the internet gurus and so called teachers cant be wrong now can they? is it possible that most of the hoopla about enlightenment is just newage nonsense?  i can tell you that most of it is nothing more than newage horsesh*t   here is how you will know what it is like, when your consciouness has evolved to the point of being self realized you will know what it is like,  do you have any idea how to make that happen, no, and neither does your internet gurus and newage teachers,  now get on with your personal growth and life purpose study and forget about enlightenment.  Those who are self realized dont have spiritual practices, dont have to work on personal growth, and have no need of a life purpose, as they are the life, that happens in the moment of life, the human identity has never experienced the moment of life or what happens in it.  the human identity can only speculate, rationalize, and intellectualize about things that it can never understand, but in this newage thinking it really doesnt matter as long as you believe, false belief only gives a sense of false security you have defeated yourself when you take on the false beliefs. it would be much better to throw away everything you believe and just say, i don't know, i don't have any experience in that and leave it there, at least you might have a chance to know, once you program yourself with false beliefs you have little hope for a long long time, if ever. and this idea that everyone will evolve into some grand enlightened being, or there is going to be some mass awakening and everyone will become enlightened is nothing more than a bad dream, or another false belief. 

[HereNowThisMoment]

Enlightenment is aggrandized. All that it is is the realization that awareness is the primordial layer in which thoughts, perceptions, feelings, emotions, experiences, senses of self, etc. can arise. Fundamentally, nothing changes, it's just that you move from identifying with the thoughts, etc. to realizing that the thoughts, etc. occur within the space of awareness. 

13 hours ago, Erik said:

Do you really want to lose yourself and find out that you do not exist, and that no one have ever existed?

All that is lost is the belief that you are your body, your perceptions, thoughts, and so on. This idea of "you do not exist" is misconstrued. You do exist as the awareness in which all occurs. But at the same time, saying "I am awareness" is also flawed as it is just another label. You can ask "what is awareness" and realize that you do not know. Any thought you ever have about what awareness is is not awareness itself. Awareness looks out at everything but itself. All that is true is that awareness is always present but it is beyond the mind's ability to cognize. That's why things get frustrating with this work, but if you seek to ever be able to conceptualize awareness it will never happen. That is the trap of enlightenment. (Went off on a tangent there, but that may reduce a lot of the seeking that goes on... that being said, investigate it for yourself). 

13 hours ago, Erik said:

Is there a possibility that you will not want to interact with people once you become enlightened?

Is there a possibility? Perhaps. In my own experience I have mainly just become less concerned with pettiness, vanity, competition, and so on because I don't see anything as a personal attack anymore. But at the same time, this doesn't mean that I have stopped feeling emotions. For example, I still become angry if I see someone hurting an animal. I feel emotions more fully but when they pass they pass. I don't resist what authentically arises, I am just aware as it flows through and by. Not fixating or dwelling on any one experience or thing. So to a large extent interactions become deeper. You're not caught up in having to defend your sense of you, your worldview, etc. and instead you can just be aware of the current interaction. 

13 hours ago, Erik said:

Do you really want to experience void and nothingness?

How does one experience nothing? If you are experiencing nothing then aren't you really experiencing something? 

13 hours ago, Erik said:

Will you still be able to enjoy the activities you once enjoyed?

I find deeper enjoyment in everything but for different reasons that before. For example, I used to be a highly competitive person, played many sports growing up and was quite good at some of them. But the primary motive then was winning. I look back now and realize that the enjoyment did not come from a scoreboard, it came from the deep feeling of flow. The times where I did not think about outcomes but instead just was fully immersed in the moment was when I played the best. I did not play, it plays. I recently took up mountain biking again after a few years away from it, it just kinda interested me again out of nowhere and I am enjoying it more now than I ever did. Similarly to those other sports it is no longer about being competitive but about being fully present. And despite the hiatus, I am surprisingly riding better now with far less time spent on it. 

14 hours ago, Erik said:

Didn´t Jed Mckenna say that many people that become enlightened isolate themselves and keep their mouth shut about the whole thing? That they become lazy because there is no desire to become anything at all or to improve yourself.

The point of motivation largely changes. It is not about self improvement or doing something purely for the sake of something else. The activities of this moment no longer serve as a means to an end in some conceptual future moment but are the end in themselves. But that absolutely does not mean that someone cannot have the capacity to create, learn, etc. Yes, nothing you do will fundamentally change what you are. For example, self improvement might mean "I will get job X" but job X is just what you do, it is not what you are. It is another label. So can that make someone lazy and reclusive, maybe, but not necessarily. 

 

 

[Mal]

@charlie2dogs

Thanks Charlie. And I want to say that your message here has been consistent from the first post.

Thanks for this!!

[cetus]

17 hours ago, Erik said:

What´s your guys thoughts on this? Have any other teachers talked about this?

Don't worry about suddenly losing anything. That's not going to happen if you don't want it to. If you do have an awakening, live the middle way as explained here. An expanded view of the true nature of everything.

Edited July 21, 2016 by cetus56

[Flicker_boy]

5 hours ago, Arik said:

Find me the one who does, and I slap the shit outta him.

hahahah imposssible, only no-one can do that

Edited July 21, 2016 by Lorenzo Engel

[Galyna]

@Erik

Hey Eric,

I think that fundamental point that you have to realize here is that you DO NO have a free will to make decision about Enlightenment, whether to pursue it or not. It is not up to you to decide...

[Patrick]

I just read Steven Norquist's essay on his enlightenment... After reading it, I had a minor ego-trip of depression the following day--It just made enlightenment seem so hollow.

To be, or not to be? Is it worth it?

http://www.spiritualteachers.org/norquist_article.htm

I don't know...

Edited July 21, 2016 by Patrick

[abrakamowse]

1 hour ago, Patrick said:

I just read Steven Norquist's essay on his enlightenment... After reading it, I had a minor ego-trip of depression the following day--It just made enlightenment seem so hollow.

To be, or not to be? Is it worth it?

http://www.spiritualteachers.org/norquist_article.htm

I don't know...

What is Enlightenment for you?

[Patrick]

@abrakamowse I'll never know what it is until I am enlightened, however, enlightenment to me is a label for breaking the illusion of the self-concept, the "I," or identification with this human mechanical body.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Patrick

[abrakamowse]

7 minutes ago, Patrick said:

@abrakamowse I'll never know what it is until I am enlightened, however, enlightenment to me is a label for breaking the illusion of the self-concept.

Yeah, it's just that. It can sound hollow from the ego perspective but once you are on the other side means freedom.

 

Anyway...  there's no one to become enlightened so... there's also no one to become depressed or see the experience as hollow.

Edited July 21, 2016 by abrakamowse

[abrakamowse]

I would like to add that this is one of the best articles I've read about enlightenment, thanks for sharing it @Patrick

I'll post it again here, everyone should read it.

http://www.spiritualteachers.org/norquist_article.htm