Paradox of the Self

[Gadasaa]

God, the substance of all things takes on my particular individual form in this life time, the shape, memory, history and personality that makes me the avatar i'm today. So, it's obvious that as the substance, i'm eternal and infinite but as this individual, i'm temporary and finite. But which one are you really? if you think carefully. If we follow the logic of oneness, doesn't that mean God experiences you only once and that's it. After this form dies, it just moves on and creates another new form and experiences it, thus giving birth to a new human being. So, to me, it seems followings statements are both true. You're eternal and you only live once. 

[VeganAwake]

There isn't a 'YOU'... that's a dream or Maya illusion of the self.

So you could say eternity is eternal but that's just a story the dream character created.

there isn't a separate individual inside the body that's alive now, so there won't be anyone to live or die later.

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by VeganAwake

[Gadasaa]

@VeganAwake I understand that our ego is a mind construction, and no more than bunch of thoughts. However, i don't support the idea of reality being illusion. It is what it is. Some people choose to call it illusion and other call it reality. After all everything is made of God, and God's the realist thing that there's. 

[abrakamowse]

15 minutes ago, Gadasaa said:

@VeganAwake I understand that our ego is a mind construction, and no more than bunch of thoughts. However, i don't support the idea of reality being illusion. It is what it is. Some people choose to call it illusion and other call it reality. After all everything is made of God, and God's the realist thing that there's. 

That's the problem with words. When they say is not real or is an illusion it means that is not made the way we think it is. 

For example matter, the atoms or particles that create matter are no where to be found. They are particles when observed and they are waves when no interaction. 

 

I like the Christian view of the matter that says that Jesus was man and God at the same time. 

And that's what you are. You are the same as Christ, God and human. 

You have to find the God part of yourself. 

[VeganAwake]

 it's not just the ego, your entire separate sense of 'Self' is a bundle of thoughts...

If a doctor zapp's your brain with electricity you would turn into a vegetable....

And of course the separate sense of self would not accept reality being illusion... it only knows the real and has no idea what unreal is.

Yes absolutely it is what it is...

There's still a body with all of its senses.... but what is there without the thought stories.?.. a dream, reality consciousness, absolute, god....or just more thought stories?

God is the realest thing hmmm...

Please don't take my word for it...

Inspect it ❤

[abrakamowse]

I would add that what is real is the experiences that we have. The lessons we learn. 

Everything that is not permanent is not real by definition. 

[Osaid]

5 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

Everything that is not permanent is not real by definition.

I think anything that comes into awareness can be considered real. You can call it relative or absolute but it is still something that is being experienced within reality. But of course this just comes down to however you want to define "real".

[VeganAwake]

It's not that when Awakening occurs everything somehow looks different or New Dimensions of reality are revealed.

It's recognized that the apparent individual that gives meaning purpose and value to everything which it seems to experience, isn't real.

As long as it seems like there is a sense of 'ME' here that will get something out of THIS, everything will be meaningful and full of purpose.

When that collapses, everything is what it already is...THIS!!

Not for any reason, not for any individual... simply because it just IS.

 

[bennett oppel]

I don't think its a case that the self is a paradox, far from it. People who think in terms of god are to my mind still stuck in hierarchical thinking with god somehow above them and them down below. God to me seems like a rather infantile construct as a result. My line of thinking is that we are all unlimited entities in some way but as we have to coexist in the same reality we are limits to each other. The only reason that reality seems the way it is to us is because we are each unlimited but relative to each other we are not. In my imagination I can think of turning someone into an apple for example but they probably won't want that to happen and hence it does not, in other words that persons unlimited nature is a limit to my unlimited nature. This is a much more complicated state than believing its all one consciousness or one god experiencing itself. This might have been a past state in universal terms but its more one that's akin to a juvenile existence than anything else compared to whats going on now now. It might be that this was the original infinity for lack of a better word but now we are dealing with an infinite number of infinities and that's a higher state than the previous one .The self therefore is an attempt to find a place alongside other entities, something to construct rather than debunk. A oneness based on individual entities bonding through mutual respect and trust is much better than some mythical field connecting us which would be an absolute nightmare if you gave it any real thought.

[Corpus]

11 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

 

If a doctor zapp's your brain with electricity you would turn into a vegetable....

Have you not heard of electro-convulsive therapy (ECT)?

[Member]

Have you thought that it is just a consensus that we are temporary and finite and we believe in this so strongly that it becomes reality? Don't know how to explain this but to me it looks that we are more than just this self-aware decaying matter that ceases to exist at some point. Besides this, form doesn't die imo but rather always transforms. We just attribute the whole changing process to TIME and think that is some separate divine substance moving all the finite things in this infinite field of pure consciousness. All of these are nothing but assumptions because reality looks so obvious that you don't dare to question anything further!

Edited June 18, 2020 by Member

[Nahm]

@Gadasaa

If my wife & I are watching Forrest Gump in the ‘living room’, and I claim there is literally a separate individual present, “Tom Hanks”... and my wife says “no, that’s a screen”, who would you say is ‘more accurate’?

[abrakamowse]

14 hours ago, Osaid said:

 But of course this just comes down to however you want to define "real".

Yes, the meaning of the word "real" varies according to our preconceived ideas and beliefs. That's true.

In the dictionary you can find both definitions, one of them in my POV is not accurate Lol... but probably that's what our collective ego thinks. Because they put in the dictionary the meanings that we all collectively accept.

Edited June 18, 2020 by abrakamowse

[Member]

12 hours ago, bennett oppel said:

In my imagination I can think of turning someone into an apple for example but they probably won't want that to happen and hence it does not, in other words that persons unlimited nature is a limit to my unlimited nature.

Plot twist: you can turn someone into an apple from your relative POV, let's say through a self-induced hallucination, but they won't turn into anything since that's their first person perspective. And here's another mindfuckery: what if our interaction "with others" doesn't happen in real time and they actually have their own "biological" clock? You know, there are lots of creatures experiencing different spacetime and some might even live in the year 2100 right now just that they perceive their world differently. Reality could be a lot more weird if you think about it.