Sexual abuse by gurus

[How to be wise]

I was speaking to someone the other day, and they told me how some spiritual teacher was sexually abusing his students during a retreat. I asked him how, and he said simply that the teacher was having sex with some of his students. Further research showed me that all of this teacher’s sexual activity was consensual. The accusers were not the students who he had sex with, simply people who discovered that it happened. Of course no legal action was taken against him, because it wasn’t rape.

But that got me thinking, is it really bad if some teacher agrees to have sex with a student. In this teachers case, the students wanted the sex, not him. He simply did not reject them. If neither party is in another relationship, then surely a sexual experience isn’t the end of the world? (Note all the students are adults!)

What do you guys think?

[Oliver Saavedra]

It's very common for many gurus and teachers to do this. 

The normal brain isn't evolved enough to recieve such praise and love from everyone all day, eventually it truly believes it is the "king of the world" and the shadow takes control of the guru. Then all sorts of repressed behaviour start to come out, then abuse starts to happen. 

I'm not really sure if its right or wrong, depends on how the people involved understand the experience. But for sure unlimited sex can corrupt anyone if its taken unconsciously. 

Check Leo's cult psychology series

Edited June 17, 2020 by Oliver Saavedra

[allislove]

I think it's completely fine to have sex if all parties want it.

The fruit of spiritual work is that - you magnet people since truth is so radiant  

[peachboy]

If it's consensual and pertains to common sense morality then there's no problem.

Sex and sexuality is really no different from any other art-form. It is meaningful yet meaningless at the same time.

[mandyjw]

The path of devotion is a real thing and a real stage. The student will commonly project their desire for God or enlightenment on the teacher. It's a very vulnerable place to be in and requires a lot of trust. It is natural that survival instincts of the mind will coopt and confuse the desire for God into physical attraction in an attempt to resolve it, or "get" what it wants.  The "I" thinks it's a body, so it says "Well, I can't manage to merge with God, so what should I do. Hmm...." The next best thing is to find a guru to sleep with. 

The closer you get to God, the more ridiculous the distractions get. 

My own judgement would say that "gurus" *should* be well aware of this, so it does make one question their deepest desires and intentions for their students to awaken. Of course lessons will be learned by all involved, no matter how they are learned. 

[Nak Khid]

2 hours ago, How to be wise said:

I was speaking to someone the other day, and they told me how some spiritual teacher was sexually abusing his students during a retreat. I asked him how, and he said simply that the teacher was having sex with some of his students. Further research showed me that all of this teacher’s sexual activity was consensual. The accusers were not the students who he had sex with, simply people who discovered that it happened. Of course no legal action was taken against him, because it wasn’t rape.

But that got me thinking, is it really bad if some teacher agrees to have sex with a student. In this teachers case, the students wanted the sex, not him. He simply did not reject them. If neither party is in another relationship, then surely a sexual experience isn’t the end of the world? (Note all the students are adults!)

What do you guys think?

what about college professors having three ways with students? 

[Lyubov]

It's wrong. There needs to be a clear path of delineation when it comes to this work to avoid the many traps and wounds that can inadvertently be inflicted on people. A student/teacher role is especially inappropriate. I try to avoid listening to all gurus who have a history of this.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Lyubov

[Aaron p]

I feel like it wouldn't be a good idea...something about that doesn't sit well. But then again, if your not making yourself out to be this unrealistic holyman (i.e if your being real) then what is a retreat with a "teacher"...other than a group of friends experiencing God together. And if it's at that level of authenticity, why not have sex...infact, everyone should have sex if they wanted to id say. Why not? I'm sure there are other things that could be said about it, but I see nothing wrong with getting your dick wet if the opportune moment arises hahahhaa

[Leo Gura]

16 hours ago, How to be wise said:

In this teachers case, the students wanted the sex, not him. He simply did not reject them.

Lol

How convenient!

It's going to screw up the student. Lots of needy and ignorant students will come to the guru for attention and love. It does not serve them for the guru to sleep with them. It's like a therapist sleeping with his clients.

[remember]

as i think about it hugh hefner is one of my favourite turquoise gurus of all times. he made so many women really successful and he was a feminist at that. i would not wonder if he was vegan.

look how he‘s radiating.

he was not that successful in the beginning he started out with brunettes. but as he could make the age gap grow he also could make his influence grow.

Edited June 18, 2020 by remember

[lmfao]

2 hours ago, remember said:

he was not that successful in the beginning he started out with brunettes.

Hey come on now that's an insult, brunettes ≥ blondes. 

[Consept]

Check out the bikram yoga guy that was a mess. 

It feels like the power differential is too wide, a follower of a guru almost sees them as a God so then to take advantage of that I dont think thats cool or at least not in the best interest of the student. But then question is what does a guru do if they want sex or a relationship?

[mandyjw]

@remember

3 minutes ago, Consept said:

 

It feels like the power differential is too wide, a follower of a guru almost sees them as a God so then to take advantage of that I dont think thats cool or at least not in the best interest of the student. 

The reason there's such an appeal for students is because they (mostly) unconsciously want to knock down or resolve the power discrepancy. It's really not as flattering to the guru as he thinks. If a guru, leader, public figure, teacher, etc, attracts this behavior from students then it might be because he wants to die to/transcend the problem of his belief in his own authority. 

[remember]

55 minutes ago, lmfao said:

Hey come on now that's an insult, brunettes ≥ blondes. 

ok that’s not fair to natural blondes...its actually quite racist towards a minority and towards the majority.

did i say racist? i meant sexistic...or maybe its both - whatever, as a guru he was quite specific. i also cannot remember if he ever took in guys.

Edited June 18, 2020 by remember

[Consept]

31 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

@remember

The reason there's such an appeal for students is because they (mostly) unconsciously want to knock down or resolve the power discrepancy. It's really not as flattering to the guru as he thinks. If a guru, leader, public figure, teacher, etc, attracts this behavior from students then it might be because he wants to die to/transcend the problem of his belief in his own authority. 

I see what you're saying, kind of like a challenge for them to bring him down to their level 

[AtheisticNonduality]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Lol

How convenient!

It's going to screw up the student. Lots of needy and ignorant students will come to the guru for attention and love. It does not serve them for the guru to sleep with them. It's like a therapist sleeping with his clients.

Yeah, Leo, stay away from us.

[remember]

12 minutes ago, Consept said:

I see what you're saying, kind of like a challenge for them to bring him down to their level 

yes, hugh hefner had to be constantly on watch not to be brought down to their level. he was one of the gurus who mastered staying untouched like the buddha.

[nistake]

From an interview with Adyashanti:

Safransky: Many masters turn out to be abusing their power: conducting inappropriate financial dealings or having sex with their disciples while advocating celibacy. Why do you think that happens?

Adyashanti: I can take a guess. There’s a lot of power inherent in enlightenment — or the perception of it — and spiritual power is no less corrupting than any other power. In fact, it may be even more corrupting.

I remember the first time I became conscious of this: I started teaching at thirty-three; most everybody was older than me, and more educated, and smarter. They had better jobs and all that. As I was driving home from teaching one night, it suddenly hit me: I could go in there and say almost anything and make them believe it. I saw, all at once, the incredible frailty of human beings. And I understood how intelligent, well-educated people can get involved in cults and the most ridiculous ideas: when we are in the grasp of ego, we’re extraordinarily vulnerable. As soon as I realized this, something else arose, which was this extraordinary distaste for it. That sort of power isn’t a pleasant thing to have. Now I look back at my teacher, Arvis Joen Justi, and see that her most important transmission to me was her integrity, because it gave me that distaste for power and influence. I can only guess that some people, even people with the best intentions, start to find that power enticing.

When you’re a spiritual teacher, you’re living in the projections of people around you. They have a tendency to see you as godlike, and that is not a healthy environment for anybody. But a spiritual teacher, by nature, has to exist in it. I’ve found that the more you try to correct this perception, the stronger it becomes. People just think you’re even better, because you’re not like all the teachers who are encouraging their students to see them as demigods. There’s no way around the projection game, and the potential is always there for it to corrode my integrity. I’m not immune to that. In fact, as soon as I conclude that I could never take advantage of people, it’s already started. It’s a subtle thing that can easily grow as time goes on, because there’s usually not someone around to say to the teacher, “Hey, this isn’t right.” Spiritual students are almost encouraged to think that because the teacher is an enlightened being, he or she knows everything. So people check their good sense at the door. What I tell people is that if you’re seeking enlightenment, your good sense is vital. In fact, you’re going to have to learn to trust it more and more. I think people actually know early on when something’s off about a teacher, but they think they must be wrong, because an enlightened person can’t do any wrong. And that’s not true. Enlightened people can do wrong. They can do harmful things. I think sometimes they don’t know it themselves.

My teacher told me, “There are lots of temptations out there. If you ever think you can’t handle those temptations, stop before you do something stupid.” That was a promise I made to her. We shouldn’t make the assumption that lust or greed or corruption could never emerge in us. It clearly can. Humility is always the best protection against being corrupted by power.

[mandyjw]

12 minutes ago, remember said:

yes, hugh hefner had to be constantly on watch not to be brought down to their level. he was one of the gurus who mastered staying untouched like the buddha.

He's just jealous and so deeply distraught that he'll never be a woman, so he surrounds himself with them, the more you objectify them the more accessible their feminine power seems to be.

[Consept]

29 minutes ago, remember said:

yes, hugh hefner had to be constantly on watch not to be brought down to their level. he was one of the gurus who mastered staying untouched like the buddha.

Its true, the playboy mansion was basically an ashram