Is enlightenment necessary?

[NorthNow]

Why would I need to shed the illusion? I have had moments of awakenings, in many facets. My "enlightenment" is patchy. I understand many concepts, and some concepts I only partially understand/haven't experienced. 

I'm at the point where my ego is unstable even thought I haven't done any substances in almost a year. It's quite mentally stressing. I am at the point where I either dive into awakening completely or I lock it away and welcome my ordinary life. I seem to be under the impression a full understanding is necessary, that something must be understood. Does it matter? 

[Gili Trawangan]

Short answer: no.

[LfcCharlie4]

True awakening goes full circle, you can live an 'ordinary life' but it will never be the same, you'll be completely happy and fulfilled  

The 10th Ox Herding Picture- 

X. Entering the Marketplace with Extended Hands

Preface:
All alone, the gate shut so tight–not even the thousand sages can comprehend. Hiding his light he strays from the tracks of the sages who have gone before. He comes round to the market with his gourd dangling and returns to his hut clumping along with his staff. He shows up at the drinking places and fish stalls to awaken all to their buddhahood.

Verse:
With bare chest and unshod feet, he walks into the market, daubed with dirt and smeared with ashes, laughter fills his face. Without using mystic arts or divine powers he makes withered trees at once burst into flower.

Waka:
Hands extended, feet in the sky–on a dead branch perches a bird.

https://ordinaryzensangha.org/ten-oxherding-pictures/

 

[Raptorsin7]

@NorthNow I want happiness because anything else I'd want in life is with the subtle expectation that the want would bring happiness.

Awakening to me Is awakening to peace and happiness so I can then enjoy my life so thats why I'm pursuing it.

48 minutes ago, NorthNow said:

Does it matter? 

That depends on what you want?

Edited June 17, 2020 by Raptorsin7

[allislove]

The whole game is about you remembering who you are.
There are no winners or losers in this game.
It's perfect, as it is, now.

[ivankiss]

It is not necessary. It is inevitable. 

[Shiva99]

1 hour ago, dimitri said:

The whole game is about you remembering who you are.
There are no winners or losers in this game.
It's perfect, as it is, now.

I like how that sounds. But, would you say the same to a drug addict, homeless person or someone who is terminally ill dieng from cancer?

[Nahm]

6 hours ago, NorthNow said:

Why would I need to shed the illusion? I have had moments of awakenings, in many facets. My "enlightenment" is patchy. I understand many concepts, and some concepts I only partially understand/haven't experienced. 

I'm at the point where my ego is unstable even thought I haven't done any substances in almost a year. It's quite mentally stressing. I am at the point where I either dive into awakening completely or I lock it away and welcome my ordinary life. I seem to be under the impression a full understanding is necessary, that something must be understood. Does it matter? 

You’re believing there is ‘something which can be shed’, and calling that ‘something’, ‘the illusion’. If ‘something’ is an illusion, it can’t be ‘shed’, because it’s not actually ‘something’. 

Only a thought, a belief, then is created - that there is a you which could ‘shed’ ‘something’, which is ‘illusory’. 

Because there is the belief illusion is a thing which could be shed, there is a belief in a you which is shedding it. 

Upon those beliefs (something to shed & you), there is the belief In ‘how that shedding is going’, and thus the claiming which perpetuates the beliefs...”my” enlightenment. But there is no ‘you’ which could ‘become’ enlightened, nor is there a ‘you’ which could ‘shed’ a ‘thing’ which is illusory, and therefore not a ‘thing’ in the first place. 

Then there is a belief that if you understand enough concepts, the ‘you’ would ‘be more enlightened’. But all concepts are illusory, marked by the very word, noting you are conceiving ‘them’. Notice, ‘you’ ‘yourself’, are no more than an idea, and as such were ‘conceived’. 

In believing there is a separate you, there is the belief this ‘you’ could have ‘things’, which are also separate. One of those ‘things’, is “an ego”. ( “my” ego - my ‘thing’ that I have). There’s no ‘you’, in the sense, you are not a thing. Therefore there is no ‘ego’, as a ‘thing’ ‘you’ could ‘have’. It’s just beliefs. 

In the believing of so much non-sense (what doesn’t feel good), and the lack of inspecting the beliefs, another belief is created, that of the ‘my ego’ being ‘the one’ at fault. “My ego” being “unstable”...”even though I haven’t done any substances in almost a year”, as if that ‘you’ were a ‘thing’, which could ‘do’ ‘things’ like ‘substances’. “It’s” quite mentally stressing “ - what is “it”?  Fifty pounds of circular beliefs. 

In an attempt to compensate for the false beliefs, another belief is created - that there is “complete awakening”... or...”my ordinary life”. “Ordinary life” is a belief, an attitude, a perspective - a way to pretend there is an identity, via claiming “my ordinary life”. “ I “ “am the separate one, who has a “life”. Another belief, which contributes to the veiling of what is in actuality pure ineffable magic, and even that is saying too much. 

Since the stress & tension can’t possibly be simply do to not focusing, and choosing the better feeling attitude, thus experiencing the unfolding of everything desired in this life experience, etc - it must be that ‘you’ are ‘lacking something’. Another belief is then created, that there is ‘something’ which ‘you’ are ‘lacking’, ‘understanding’ of. But understanding is the actual you, which is right now understanding. There is no separate self, no person, no human - “understanding”. The belief at play, is that there are ‘things’. 

Then another belief is created...in...”does it matter?”  “It” = you. So do you matter? Apparently. Only, apparently. You = Nothing. Nothing is potentiality, appearing as “matter”, which appears to be a “you”. 

 

@Raptorsin7

If I told you I was looking for ‘person’, you might say “dude, that’s ridiculous, because you are a person”. If you told me you were ‘looking for happiness’, I could only tell you “dude, that’s ridiculous, because you are happiness”. Happiness can never be found, ‘it’s’ what’s seeking. There is only the inspecting of beliefs which boil down to ‘you = a person’. Beliefs are ‘tricky things’, because you’re doing it, and choosing to, and pretending you’re not. (It’s my life, it’s them, it’s the situation, the circumstances, it’s how I am, etc, etc). That you are aware you’re doing this, is the suffering. Were you not aware you’re doing this, there’d be no suffering. If you were not happiness - it would not be possible to experience what is referred to as “the suffering”. It is literally because you are happiness - that some thoughts & beliefs about yourself don’t feel good. 

Many beliefs, for many people, are “I don’t particularly care for x, y, and z about myself, but I’m working on acceptance, I’m working on my life, I’m working on my self, etc, etc”. There is the common belief, that it is “x, y & z” which are the reason for the ‘not feeling good’, but I’m ‘working on it’, etc, simply isn’t true. There is not a you & and it.  

The reason for the ‘not feeling good’, is because the belief ‘you’ are a ‘person’ - is not true. It is believing “I am separate (as a person)”. The ‘not feeling good’ is perpetuated by believing arising thoughts, “about me”. Meditation = relaxation, and is the relief for thought attachment. Yoga & breath-work are for releasing the energy / emotional misunderstanding, ‘from the body’. 

 

[allislove]

59 minutes ago, Shiva99 said:

I like how that sounds. But, would you say the same to a drug addict, homeless person or someone who is terminally ill dieng from cancer?

This question comes from the belief that you are separate from drug addict... you are not  

[allislove]

@Shiva99 imagine you have a dream at night that you are drug addict. In the middle of the dream you realize that this is a dream.
Is there something wrong with being drug addict in the dream? 
As drug addict in the dream of course you can go to homeless person and say "It's MY dream, it's perfect"  

Edited June 17, 2020 by dimitri

[Shiva99]

3 minutes ago, dimitri said:

@Shiva99 imagine you have a dream at night that you are drug addict. In the middle of the dream you realize that this is a dream.
Is there something wrong with being drug addict in the dream? 
As drug addict in the dream of course you can go to homeless person and say "It's MY dream, it's perfect"  

I wonder if you would say the same if i would throw you on the street, in a group of heavy drug addicted homeless people. 

[allislove]

Just now, Shiva99 said:

I wonder if you would say the same if i would throw you on the street, in a group of heavy drug addicted homeless people. 

It depends on "how awaken you are", there were stories in the past, like with Jesus  

[Raptorsin7]

@Nahm I do anywhere from 30 to 60 mins of laying down and trying to focus on breathing each day but it doesn't work. By doesn't work I mean I never reach a place of being, where I say okay this is it, this is the way to be in the world that is actually enjoyable and worth living for. 

I'm willing to accept the fact that I'm not a person, and I understand what you wrote but I'm still scratching my head as to how to actually experience that aha moment. 

Theres tension in my head and on the crown, that still has yet to be released in like 5 months. That's the closest I am to any real progress.Release all tension in head = break through I've been seeking I think..

[Nahm]

19 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I do anywhere from 30 to 60 mins of laying down and trying to focus on breathing each day but it doesn't work. By doesn't work I mean I never reach a place of being, where I say okay this is it, this is the way to be in the world that is actually enjoyable and worth living for. 

Focused away from stomach breathing, upon thinking... thought narrative about the practice itself is being believed. Then another about how this isn’t good enough for me, I can’t simply be myself, love myself, love my world, and do what I actually want to. 

That’s how much the stomach breathing meditation works!  Soon enough, there is no longer the believing of that thought story, which is what doesn’t feel good. 

Life unfolds as the story you tell. You stand to change your entire perspective & attitude, and therefore life, by ‘doing’ nothing. The being you’re looking for, to feel better, is ‘doing’ the breathing. Not ‘you’. “Meet” Being at the breath. “Both” of you be conscious of it.”One” of you is actually just thoughts. “One” of you already is ‘that’ consciousness. 

19 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I'm willing to accept the fact that I'm not a person, and I understand what you wrote but I'm still scratching my head as to how to actually experience that aha moment. 

Tell that story. Switch the theme from it’s definitely not this for sure no doubt this sucks, to, it actually literally is this. You could tell that story all day long. It’ll likely be a pleasant feeling of being conscious, aware, mindful. 

19 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Theres tension in my head and on the crown, that still has yet to be released in like 5 months. That's the closest I am to any real progress.Release all tension in head = break through I've been seeking I think..

Stomach breathing meditation works. There is great emotional & tension release in realizing all the narratives one’s been believing and sharing.

[Raptorsin7]

@Nahm Okay.

Maybe I'm not doing it long enough. How many hours in a day should I do this?

Also, why stomach breathing? My break through came from released tension in the head. Shouldn't it be attention on the head breathing?

[Nahm]

@Raptorsin7

All of the time. 

Notice how you’re already ‘going into’ thought narrative about doing the practice, which is intended to focus on stomach breathing, relaxation, other-than-thinking. 

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Nahm Okay.

Maybe I'm not doing it long enough. How many hours in a day should I do this?

Also, why stomach breathing? My break through came from released tension in the head. Shouldn't it be attention on the head breathing?

Your head breaths? Lol you must be very weird.

[VeganAwake]

@NorthNow  it's not necessary because it's not real.

So-called Enlightenment is the recognition that there never was a separate individual that could ever attain something called Enlightenment or liberation.

But this isn't something that needs to be recognized in the future.... it's already the case whether it's recognized or not.

hence why it's been described as the lifting of the Veil ❤

Like a fog lifting to reveal what was already there ❤

 

[bennett oppel]

A short cut to get through the nonsense is to simply ask your self the question what you would do if you were god or rather a god. Don't bother trying to ask questions about becoming god because that just goes around and around in a circle. If you do try and take that question seriously though then you'll go down a very big rabbit hole. I was meditating for a month before I went down that path and then had a transcendental experience that was quite profound and since then those experiences have not stopped and that was about 20 years ago. Be warned though it is not for the light hearted