How can suffering dissolve the ego?

[sausagehead]

How can you suffer in a way that dissolves the ego? Let's say your girlfriend breaks up with you and leaves you heartbroken. Can allowing and fully experiencing the suffering that comes along with that be used as a means to dissolve your ego or burn away impurities?

I'd like to know if/how something can be gained from suffering. Thanks

[Marianitozz]

 

The pshychological suffering most of the time is an old trauma that is triggered from the actual situation. In your exemple the suffering from break up it may be the suffering of his inner child that his mother never cared or loved him. And the funny part is you attract this kind of situations until you eventually feel the pain and the original trauma is integrated (pshychoterapy). 

The ego is a spectrum for how much love you had. If you had luck and you were raised in a decent family with care fulfilling your basic needs, you become a functional loving being, if not, you become a manipulator, exploitive, etc.(disfunctional) to get that love that you lack. Both are ego but different gradations.

 

 

[Zigzag Idiot]

I copied this from the thread on George Gurdjieff 

Intentional suffering is sometimes referred to as Conscious suffering in the Fourth Way.

In Talks on Beelzebub's Tales, Bennett distinguishes four types of suffering - Unnecessary Suffering, Unavoidable Suffering, Voluntary Suffering and Intentional Suffering. Lets have a look at each of these to see if they can help our understanding:

The first is Unnecessary Suffering. This would be the type of suffering that we incur because of our unreasonable attitudes and expectations towards others, from our ill-will, hatred and rejection of others, from doubt, possessiveness, arrogance and self pity. In other words, suffering arising from our self-importance.

The second is Unavoidable Suffering. This would be the type of suffering that comes to us by accident or from events beyond our control, such as interpersonal conflicts, war, disaster, disease or death.

Third, we have Voluntary Suffering. This would be the type of suffering that we take upon ourselves in order to accomplish a personal aim, such as an athlete who disciplines himself to win a race, or a student who labours to get good grades.

And finally we have Intentional Suffering. According to Bennett, this would be the kind of suffering that we take upon ourselves in order to accomplish an impersonal or altruistic goal, one that is directed more towards service to others or to the Work, and not for any personal gain. Bennett assumes that this is what Gurdjieff meant by Intentional Suffering.

From an article on the second Conscious Shock 

https://www.endlesssearch.co.uk/philo_is_talk_ae2005.htm

 

[Leo Gura]

Yes! Conscious suffering moves you closer to God. Unconscious suffering is endless.

[Raptorsin7]

@Leo Gura David goggins preaches suffering through pushing yourself into uncomfortable situations. Goggins is paradoxical. He's clearly preaching from a higher perspective but hes so egotistical and attached to views about himself

Doesn't this contradict spiritual wisdom of surrendering, letting go etc?

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Leo Gura David goggins preaches suffering through pushing yourself into uncomfortable situations. Goggins is paradoxical. He's clearly preaching from a higher perspective but hes so egotistical and attached to views about himself

Doesn't this contradict spiritual wisdom of surrendering, letting go etc?

That can work, but there's a limit to how much you can bull your way through life.

The key ingredient is CONSCIOUSNESS. The more consciously you do things, the more you will learn and grow from them.

If you just mechanically put yourself into punishing situations that can backfire and it will certainly hit a glass ceiling.

Pushing your comfort zone is important, but it must be done carefully, strategically, and not mechanically.

Surrendering is an advanced teaching which most people are not able to understand or do. Usually it takes years or decades of struggle and growth to finally learn the wisdom and power of surrender. Some stage Orange macho alpha bro is not gonna appreciate surrender yet.

[Raptorsin7]

@Leo Gura Yeah goggins has admitted that hes not yoda,which is an admission that hes lacking in wisdom and theres more he hasn't understood yet.

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by Raptorsin7

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Leo Gura Yeah goggins has admitted that hes not, which is an admission that hes lacking in wisdom and theres more he hasn't understood yet.

He's doing fine for a stage Orange guy.

But it's only stage Orange. There are much higher and more powerful ways of being.

At some point he should mature out of it.

[electroBeam]

@Raptorsin7 its similar to the delibrate practice concept. Just throwing hard maths problems at yourself wont make you a better mathematician if you dont critically analyse and fix up your mistakes/feedback. 

Selling your house without a backup plan just for kicks wont make you any more conscious IF you don't place your awareness and contemplate on the pain, suffering you go through. If you're so freaked about selling your house that you're too irrational and scared and neurotic to think things through while homeless, you'll be like that kid that doesn't take any feedback from getting the hard math questions wrong.

[Esoteric]

5 hours ago, sausagehead said:

Can allowing and fully experiencing the suffering that comes along with that be used as a means to dissolve your ego or burn away impurities?

Oh God yes. Infact it's a wonderful and efficient way to get more conscious. The key though is whenever that resistance and suffering comes you immedietely throw away the story and narrative associated with it and pull the energy into the most center of your being and you stay with the energy until it subsides. Bigger traumas comes in chunks so you will have to dissolve them in segments.

You will suck at it in the beginning and it will feel very hard to do because of the attachments to your story, pride etc. But if you commit and do this continually you will see that energy is just energy. Neither positive or negative. It will also strengthen and make you feel your subtle body. 

Recommend reading Recognition Sutras for teachings and practices regarding this.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Esoteric

[Nahm]

@sausagehead

Goodness teaches us we are creating reality, in the same manor identity is an empty outline, a dent.

[sausagehead]

 

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes! Conscious suffering moves you closer to God. Unconscious suffering is endless.

What is conscious suffering exactly? Is it just an attitude of allowing the suffering to take place within you?

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, sausagehead said:

 

What is conscious suffering exactly? Is it just an attitude of allowing the suffering to take place within you?

Sitting with the suffering, feeling it mindfully, rather than trying to escape it, avoid it, hide it, distract from it, or numb it out.

And contemplating the root of your suffering.

[Inliytened1]

17 hours ago, sausagehead said:

How can you suffer in a way that dissolves the ego? Let's say your girlfriend breaks up with you and leaves you heartbroken. Can allowing and fully experiencing the suffering that comes along with that be used as a means to dissolve your ego or burn away impurities?

I'd like to know if/how something can be gained from suffering. Thanks

I believe suffering does dissolve the ego because it is slowly killing you.  My awakening came after decades of suffering from selfishness and a lack of consciousness - and then the suffering hit its summit from a breakup of 3 years in which i realized my own selfishness.  The heartbreak became unbareable.  Yet it was Love for myself not another.  I just didn't realize that until awakening.  Your EXACT scenario.  Of course i meditated too.

But yeah - it dissolves the ego slowly.  It is said the Buddha took this path.  I took this path.  It is probably not the fastest route but it works.  I awoke at 48 and Leo awoke much earlier....not sure how old the Buddha was.

 

[VeganAwake]

On 6/16/2020 at 8:19 PM, sausagehead said:

I'd like to know if/how something can be gained from suffering. Thanks

It's not something that's gained... it's a recognition that the separate sense of self / ego / the sufferer is an illusion.

And thereby revealing the absurd notion that something "that never was" could ever gain anything ❤

[Nak Khid]

On 6/16/2020 at 11:19 PM, sausagehead said:

How can you suffer in a way that dissolves the ego?

The better question is " can you suffer in a way that dissolves the ego?" 
The answer is no 

On 6/16/2020 at 11:19 PM, sausagehead said:

I'd like to know if/how something can be gained from suffering. Thanks

valuable experience on what causes suffering 

[Member]

On 6/17/2020 at 6:19 AM, sausagehead said:

I'd like to know if/how something can be gained from suffering. Thanks

You can become stronger and more humble. So yes, suffering dissolves the ego... but that doesn't have to be a traumatic event. Trauma comes from misunderstanding of emotions and context or by clinging to your toxic attachments.

[Rigel]

I don't know how but it certainly does

Edited June 19, 2020 by Rigel