Why psychedelics??

[kireet]

Leo told in one of his videos when he went for 30 day retreat to pursue awakening and healing , he said that psychedelics are necessary.but I don’t understand if it is necessary then why are there yogis who awaken and do miraculous things just by yoga and meditation ?  But on the other side there are their disciples, who do this work for more years than them , but they still do not attain , but I don’t think even if they took psychedelics, they would awaken. I say this because there are lot of babas in India who keep doing weed and ganja , but they are looked down upon(I know it’s only a Stereotype , but I think It has some truth to it.) And they are know for stealing from people in the name of god ? Why are psychedelics necessary, could It be that Leo just did not do the yoga and meditation well enough(I’m of course no one to judge , but it is just a thought , no offence to Leo, I have huge respect for him ) . What is your perspective ?Could it be that psychedelics just work for him.

P.S :- I am open minded about psychedelics and their possibilities, nothing against them .

 

 

 

[Aaron p]

Well enlightenment is basically discovering the truth of what reality is. I think. The real truth remains the truth in all situations and circumstances...so when you take a powerful medicine like 5meo everything gets shaken up, but the truth is the only thing that doesent get shaken up, making the truth easier to see. Very fucking powerful. Nah, at this point leos word is pretty trustworthy...if he says you need psycs, you need psycs. I think he talks about how those who attain enlightenment without psycs are very rare and naturally gifted for the spiritual work

[Jacobsrw]

40 minutes ago, kireet said:

Leo told in one of his videos when he went for 30 day retreat to pursue awakening and healing , he said that psychedelics are necessary.but I don’t understand if it is necessary then why are there yogis who awaken and do miraculous things just by yoga and meditation ?  But on the other side there are their disciples, who do this work for more years than them , but they still do not attain , but I don’t think even if they took psychedelics, they would awaken. I say this because there are lot of babas in India who keep doing weed and ganja , but they are looked down upon(I know it’s only a Stereotype , but I think It has some truth to it.) And they are know for stealing from people in the name of god ? Why are psychedelics necessary, could It be that Leo just did not do the yoga and meditation well enough(I’m of course no one to judge , but it is just a thought , no offence to Leo, I have huge respect for him ) . What is your perspective ?Could it be that psychedelics just work for him.

P.S :- I am open minded about psychedelics and their possibilities, nothing against them .

 

 

 

Because the average human does not have the benefit of siting for 20 years in cave constantly mediating. Psychedelics temporarily break the mind free of its ceaseless delusions so you are enabled to see the incommunicable potentiality you have for growth.

Without them, an ordinary human in a conventional society has very slim hope of radically going far in this work. Nonetheless, it is possible. Just extremely unlikely. 

[kireet]

@Jacobsrw of course I get that , but I am asking , some people like disciples of enlightened men , they still don’t awaken after 40 years in caves, why is that?

 

[kireet]

@Aaron p that may be a possibility, spiritual growth may be different for different people  because of their past karma . But if each one of us is god (just unconscious of it) then why are we bound by chains of karma? Of course 5 meo is great and I am not denying its possibilities, but could there be something That there is something better than that which we have not discovered yet , has somebody experimented with something different from meditation,yoga,psychedelics which is even better than 5 meo ?(I ask this because I am 17 and cannot take 5meo ?  (just kidding , I am curious ))

Edited June 16, 2020 by kireet

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, kireet said:

some people like disciples of enlightened men , they still don’t awaken after 40 years in caves, why is that?

Improper neurochemistry.

Just because Arnold can bench press 700 lbs does not mean you will be able to unassisted.

Those yogis have incredibly rare neurochemistry to begin with. That's their secret. They are NOT NOT NOT normal people.

[kireet]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Improper neurochemistry.

Just because Arnold can bench press 700 lbs does not mean you will be able to unassisted.

But why is that Arnold could bench press 700 lbs after training for a certain period of  time , but some people even assisted cannot reach the state which he reached ? Is it because lack of their desire ? Or is their body their body just not fit for that stuff like Arnold’s was ?

why are yogis not like us ? Why are we not as special as them?

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by kireet

[Leo Gura]

Just now, kireet said:

But why is that Arnold could bench press 700 lbs after training for a certain period of  time , but some people even assisted cannot reach the state which he reached ? Is it because lack of their desire ? Or is their body their body just not fit for that stuff like Arnold’s was ?

Why is it that a kangaroo can jump higher than you?

Genetics.

[nistake]

Enlightenment/consciousness work is not a race. It's not about reaching the finish line as soon as possible. Having said that, you'll get huge insights by using psychedelics but you're still very young. what's the rush? I suggest you stick with meditation and/or self-inquiry, find your life purpose, exercise regularly, eat healthy food, etc. Do this for several years and when you feel the need for psychedelics deep down, then use them.

[kireet]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Why is it that a kangaroo can jump higher than you?

Genetics

So in a certain sense you are saying if we make our nuerochemistry in a such a way with psychedelics, we can jump as high as the kangaroo (symbolically of course ? ) , and I get what you are saying, but then why are there sadhus who do psychedelics but still can’t reach the Ultimate truth?
Now those sadhus don’t do 5 meo , but that would suggest that 5 meo is a special type of psychedelics (a magic pill )

[kireet]

2 minutes ago, nistake said:

suggest you stick with meditation and/or self-inquiry, find your life purpose, exercise regularly, eat healthy food, etc. Do this for several years and when you feel the need for psychedelics deep down, then use them.

Thanks for the advice ???, I am doing all that already , and i am open to taking psychedelics ( of course not now)

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, kireet said:

So in a certain sense you are saying if we make our nuerochemistry in a such a way with psychedelics, we can jump as high as the kangaroo (symbolically of course ? )

Not only that, you will jumper higher than any kangaroo naturally could.

Quote

but then why are there sadhus who do psychedelics but still can’t reach the Ultimate truth?
Now those sadhus don’t do 5 meo

Because they don't do it properly or because, again, their genetics are not suitable for that particular chemical.

99% of yogis simply have no access to pure and potent psychedelics.

Quote

but that would suggest that 5 meo is a special type of psychedelics

It is, for some people. Psychedelics affect different genetics differently.

You can give a drug to some people and it heals them, others it will kill.

[nistake]

@kireet That's great man. Also, If you have some years of meditation under your belt, you'll have a foundation for psychedelics.

[Jacobsrw]

14 minutes ago, kireet said:

@Jacobsrw of course I get that , but I am asking , some people like disciples of enlightened men , they still don’t awaken after 40 years in caves, why is that?

 

One reason is because each sentient being has its own individuate complicated conditioning that requires deconstructing. Each being is not destined to awaken as a function of how much work they do but rather the degree of conditioning they must deconstruct. It’s an idiosyncratic process.

This process is not binary. It may take one person a day and another 30 years. It is completely predicated on what goes into the “YOU”, you believe that you are. It just so happens there is a relative similarity between the conditioning many of us have adopted. So in that, it could be estimated most people will take far more than a day or even 10-20 years to awaken for that matter.

[kireet]

@Leo Gura Thanks , this gave  me a deep insight to why psychedelics are necessary. But are practices like meditation , yoga necessary with psychedelics and give extra benefits(cause I do a lot of them and lately during the concentration practice I stopped feeling the sensations of body and it felt like I was moving out from my body( is it safe?))

@nistake i am doing meditation consistently for a year , now I have started the concentration practice from 2 months

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, kireet said:

But are practices like meditation , yoga necessary with psychedelics and give extra benefits

Yes

You need manual practices to shift your baseline level of consciousness.

You don't want to rely on a chemical all the time.

[Artaemis]

I smoked weed once.  I realized I was an idiot, became a super human for 6 months and met God. 

[Artaemis]

It was way above and beyond a major sober mystical experience I had recently. No comparisons.  Drugs are very helpful. 

Edited June 16, 2020 by Artaemis

[Nak Khid]

2 hours ago, kireet said:

Leo told in one of his videos when he went for 30 day retreat to pursue awakening and healing , he said that psychedelics are necessary.but I don’t understand if it is necessary then why are there yogis who awaken and do miraculous things just by yoga and meditation ?  But on the other side there are their disciples, who do this work for more years than them , but they still do not attain , but I don’t think even if they took psychedelics, they would awaken. I say this because there are lot of babas in India who keep doing weed and ganja , but they are looked down upon(I know it’s only a Stereotype , but I think It has some truth to it.) And they are know for stealing from people in the name of god ? Why are psychedelics necessary, could It be that Leo just did not do the yoga and meditation well enough(I’m of course no one to judge , but it is just a thought , no offence to Leo, I have huge respect for him ) . What is your perspective ?Could it be that psychedelics just work for him.

P.S :- I am open minded about psychedelics and their possibilities, nothing against them .

 

 

 

psychedelics are a visionary trance state 
They are an additive state like shamanic rituals involving repetitive music and dancing , it involves sensory/perceptive stimulus. 
In this case a chemical stimulus 
The chemical has a physical effect on the brain which triggers a mental state (this is not to diminish the value of the experience) 
but it's an additive state, adding something physical
It could be sound (drums etc) and body movements, sensory input that induces a trance state of visionary  and perception changes 

But it is antithetical to some forms of mediation (not all) which are often reductive, doing the opposite, removing stimulation to approach stillness, nothingness,  focusing on one point , or observing our distracting thoughts in removed way .  These forms of meditation are clearly not a visionary trance state although that occasionally may be experienced. 

There are additive and reductive states.  These are very different
and if you look at various meditative states and visionary trance states within them they are different. 
Each psychedelic is different and mediation has many variations not all with the same outcome.
The other worldly experiences and perception changes under psychedelics are clearly not like the stillness of certain mediation states but they may be similar to other types of meditation that are more mystical (sometimes oriented toward focus on a deity).
There is also a tendency in all of these things to bring into them ones already had beliefs and experiences and cultural background. 

Enlightenment might be inspired by a mental state but it is considered to be permanent condition usually resulting in clarity and wisdom.  However what enlightenment is is very subjective and one person's "absolute truth" may be different than another's "absolute truth" . In fact truth can't be properly expressed in words

[Corpus]

I think psychedelics exponentially speed up the possible rate of deconstructing the neural circuitry which underpins ones "self-structure" temporarily, allowing a glimpse of the required direction of travel, which is actually no direction at all. To establish this unravelling requires adjunct practises which embed the work.