Separate sense of self dissolves during conversation

[DevOcean]

Just curious if others experience this in conversation with others, a dissolving of sense of self, where there is just the awareness of the other speaking and the responses that come up.

I’ve noticed it happening since I started therapy.  It’s like being in a meditative state but able to converse and interact.

I’m finding it happens as the conversation progressively becomes more open with vulnerability on both sides.

It’s stands in contrast to how I typically feel when interacting with others which is slightly contracted somehow.

I noticed it in therapy, presumably because it was a safe feeling space where I could speak freely without fear of judgement.  I enjoy the bliss of nothingness during meditation and when two people are conscious of it it’s a really interesting and fun space to explore and speak from with another.

Curious how other’s find interacting with others, in particular close family & friends and if they find themselves in this state of awareness or perhaps this is their default?

[Nahm]

@DevOcean

That’s awesome man! Yes, that’s the ‘default’, so to speak. Notice the thinking at play in framing the ‘safe’ space of therapy, and the ‘other than the safe space’. You are the safe space. Perhaps the the ‘standing of contrast’ is that of thought / belief, rather than feeling, which is the safe space ‘itself’, and knows no contrast. 

[DevOcean]

@Nahm, I am the safe space! Love that.  Thankyou!

Im trying to grasp the second part of what you said about the contrast but somehow not quite getting it.

[Forestluv]

@DevOcean That’s a really sweet spot. The term “empty listening” comes to mind. There are no mental filters processing, analyzing and calculating how best to respond. The mind is not thinking while she is speaking. There is simply listening. And it’s amazing how much understanding there is! I was amazed that I could understand someone without ‘translating’ what there were saying. . . On the flip side, I’ve noticed I can go into a “just speaking” mode. The words are just coming out. I don’t know where the come from or how the sentence is going to end. It’s like just flowing out of me. . . And as you say, these conversations are wonderful.

I can also relate about a feeling of ‘safe space’. I have a good friend and we have the ‘flow’ conversations you describe. We’ve told each other some crazy personal stuff and became even better friends. No judgements. Just listening, speaking and exploring. . . Yet today, I have to do a meeting with my boss and co-workers. It’s a serious conversation about work policies, salaries and layoffs at my work. It will likely get testy with egos flying around. For me, this space doesn’t feel as ‘safe’ and I the mental filter of caution will likely enter. 

One thing I’ve been working on to be a better listener. Quite often when someone else is speaking, my mind is thinking about my own story or what I’m going to say next. There isn’t that sense of ‘empty listening’. My find is full of thought chatter as she speaks. I’ve noticed that there is an attachment to ‘my’ thoughts. They seem more important. I might feel a desire to tell ‘my’ thoughts and even interrupt her! This isn’t always ‘bad’. Sometimes she reminds me of a memory and I get excited to share it. When I get immersed into ‘my’ thinking, sometimes the awareness you describe enters. That self attached to ‘my’ thoughts dissolves and I can make ‘her’ spoken words ‘my thoughts’. ‘Her’ spoken words are appearances in ‘my’ mind, just as if they were ‘my’ thoughts. This breaks down the duality between ‘her’ and ‘me’. 

[Nahm]

@DevOcean

Arguably, the most common way, is that of meditation-relaxation, what you might refer to as being the safe space, first thing every morning. As you go about your day, notice any why’s & what happened, in regards to ‘ending up not in that space’. What you will find, and it takes experience / trial & error...is that it is not what is perceived which ‘takes you out of the space’. By perceived, I mean it is not anything that happens, or anything anyone says, nor where you are or what environment you appear to be in. You’ll recognize it is the thought, the perspective, about perception. You might say, about what is perceived. Then you will see the effortless ‘power’ of simple focus on thought, on perspective. The true profundity of choice. Sensitivity is more known, more present, as more care is given to how you feel, in the focus of thought & perspective. Though it is quite unexplainable, you’ll experience that which ‘is perceived’, ‘reality itself’ aligning, with thought & perspective focused upon. Inevitably another ineffable “shift” occurs, a “shiftless shift”...in the realization there never was anything perceived. Simply the realization you have always been creating, effortlessly, and the “contrast” was always apparent, in the manor of, a parent. The guidance of the perceived world, becomes miraculously re-known in Truth - as feeling, sensation. 

[DevOcean]

@Serotoninluv thankyou so much for sharing. That perfectly describes the experience.  I find myself wishing every interaction could be in that flow state but so far it’s just with my therapist and parents.

@Nahm thankyou for explaining further.  I can follow along somewhat and recognise that nothing that is being perceived is the disturbing factor.  Its a thought about what is perceived.  Can you elaborate on what you mean by “in the manor of a parent”?  This stands out to me as my therapist talks about parent ego states where we have internalised our parents.  Is that what you are referring to here?

[Nahm]

@DevOcean

You might say the psychological investigation reveals why I am being the way that I am being. While the meta-inspection of direct experience reveals what I actually am, and why all appears as all appears. 

[Javfly33]

YES!! I was just going to open a topic about this. Recently I've gotten into scary moments while talking where I almost lost the sense of where I am LOL. 

I used to be a very shy introverted person and since my Awakening my conversations are being like being a whole different person. The "I" who liked to be in control of the conversations fades away and when it does it completely I feel like I'm nowhere. Don't know if I am in my body or in the body I am talking to. Talking with self-love and confidence, a great "non-duality practice".

Edited June 15, 2020 by Javfly33

[Nahm]

@Javfly33 That is awesome. ??

[DevOcean]

@Nahm, its interesting how investigating both aspects has converged in this experience.  Somehow the psychological exploration has aligned with the self inquiry in a way I didn’t expect.

 

@Javfly33 yeah, that’s it man. Same here, have been quite introverted previously and now finding myself as ease in these moments.

[Javfly33]

17 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Javfly33 That is awesome. ??

@Nahm Couldn't done it without you ??

@DevOcean ??It's amazing ? happy for you man.

[Nahm]

@Javfly33 All you. ? 

[Javfly33]

@Nahm But it's because my imagination is the only mind here. How good is it that you imagined all of this as I imagined all of you.

Kind of crazy to know that 'we' have the Same imagination. 

[Nahm]

@Javfly33

(Imagining that to be a delightful sentiment. ?)

[WaveInTheOcean]

Oh yes❤️

Beautiful ?