Policing Is Hard Work

[Forestluv]

10 hours ago, Extreme Z7 said:

I think that many people who have experienced prison may possibly have had their life changed for the better because of it.

I'd much prefer listening to or maybe even employing someone who has spent years in prison and learned from the experience rather than someone who has lived an average life in a traditional conservative environment who thinks they're morally superior to criminals.

I’m not sure of the statistics, yet I’d imagine that the majority of people that go through the prison system in the U.S. come out more messed up than when they entered. My understanding is that it is generally an abusive environment that breaks people down. I think movement more toward rehabilitation, learning and growth would be a better environment. Yet then again, I haven’t had to work in a prison system with criminals. I don’t know how feasible my good intentions of rehabilitation and growth would actually work. 

[Lyubov]

Can we just agree that the job should actually require several years oftraining instead of putting someone who did a couple years if community college through bootcamp ?

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

Can we just agree that the job should actually require several years oftraining instead of putting someone who did a couple years if community college through bootcamp ?

Of course that's a nice ideal. But the reality is that if you want every cop to have several years of training then you're gonna have to double or triple their budgets.

The more rigorous your process, the fewer people will become cops and the more pay they will demand.

These things cost $$$$$$.

[Amit]

28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

These things cost $$$$$$.

If we're creating value, is it not valid to just print new dollar bills of the same amount. 

[TrustTheProcess]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course that's a nice ideal. But the reality is that if you want every cop to have several years of training then you're gonna have to double or triple their budgets.

The more rigorous your process, the fewer people will become cops and the more pay they will demand.

These things cost $$$$$$.

true, that's why we can't just look police reform as an isolated issue. That sounds like a disaster. 

If we want to increase training standards, I think it would also make sense to also implement serious criminal justice reform(end war on drugs), increase education spending, increase infrastructure spending, and increase spending on fighting homelessness and poverty. These policies would decrease the need for so many police officers. I think initially, there would be more upfront costs, but downstream, it actually saves money. 

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, louhad said:

true, that's why we can't just look police reform as an isolated issue. That sounds like a disaster. 

If we want to increase training standards, I think it would also make sense to also implement serious criminal justice reform(end war on drugs), increase education spending, increase infrastructure spending, and increase spending on fighting homelessness and poverty. These policies would decrease the need for so many police officers. I think initially, there would be more upfront costs, but downstream, it actually saves money. 

That is the right course, of course. Which is why it will be vehemently opposed and denied.

[Lyubov]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course that's a nice ideal. But the reality is that if you want every cop to have several years of training then you're gonna have to double or triple their budgets.

The more rigorous your process, the fewer people will become cops and the more pay they will demand.

These things cost $$$$$$.

well I'm down for re evaluating the budget. Seems like they spend a ton of money on some ridiculous stuff though like armored cars and grenade launchers. I think a total reorganization of government spending needs to take place but it will take some time for the public to get behind this. 

[Dwarniel]

This is what a 3 year bachelor degree to earn a badge, no carried Guns & on going training looks like. Of course the country is much smaller. & no civilians carry Guns either. 

[Onemanwolfpac]

On 19/06/2020 at 7:40 PM, Lyubov said:

Can we just agree that the job should actually require several years oftraining instead of putting someone who did a couple years if community college through bootcamp ?

Agreed. I would love to see those hating on cops try to their life on the job. Jocko is correct in more training. I think anybody who says yo remove choke holds is just not very smart. I think bjj basics is a good thing. 

The activist i linked was critical of cops till he shot some civilian and got shot on training scenario's. It happens so fast. 

Yes, cops need to be trained better bit s lot of states and community need reform. Seriously. 

[Bodigger]

104 shot in Chicago this past weekend.  No reaction from protestors…..Incredible.

I am curious if this increase in shootings is due to police, or lack of police, in motivation.

[SerpaeTetra]

19 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

104 shot in Chicago this past weekend.  No reaction from protestors…..Incredible.

I am curious if this increase in shootings is due to police, or lack of police, in motivation.

Violence (riots, etc) brings about more violence.  Some  look at it as just more unneeded violence, "see what all this leads to!"  Many others aren't encouraging this behavior, yet rather just accepting it as a consequence of built up frustration and injustice over many years. That injustice has caused a far greater amount of pain compared to what these protests have led to.   

[Forestluv]

44 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

104 shot in Chicago this past weekend.  No reaction from protestors…..Incredible.

I am curious if this increase in shootings is due to police, or lack of police, in motivation.

If a mind focuses on one piece of the puzzle, the mind will only see that one piece of the puzzle. If the mind is attached/identified to that piece and defends that piece, it will not be able to see or understand other pieces. It will create a “my piece” vs. “not my piece” mindset.

It’s your choice wether you want to be a one-piece guy or if you want to see how pieces fit together. 

[Javfly33]

On 15/6/2020 at 5:50 AM, Preety_India said:

@Onemanwolfpac  

If the criminal is not a threat, then the cop does not have the right to kill him.

 

Would you agree he would have a right to shoot him at least?

I mean there´s gotta be some kind of repercusion of stealing police officer´s gun. 

 

[Bodigger]

@Serotoninluv  I know Wisconsin is seeing a lot of new pieces and they stand out like a sore thumb.  People are fleeing the big cities and moving to rural areas where there is still some law and order.  The cities have a choice;  Get control of the issue, get help, or fall apart.

[Forestluv]

19 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

@Serotoninluv  I know Wisconsin is seeing a lot of new pieces and they stand out like a sore thumb.  People are fleeing the big cities and moving to rural areas where there is still some law and order.  The cities have a choice;  Get control of the issue, get help, or fall apart.

That’s not what I’m referring to. You are not seeing this systematically.

[Bodigger]

@Serotoninluv  maybe I miswrote, but I'm observing the pieces, not projecting where the pieces should go.  I am being curious as to why the increase in shootings in relation to the topic.  Is it because there are no consequences to doing the act.

[Forestluv]

17 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

@Serotoninluv  maybe I miswrote, but I'm observing the pieces, not projecting where the pieces should go.  I am being curious as to why the increase in shootings in relation to the topic.  Is it because there are no consequences to doing the act.

To me you seem locked in to a small subset of aspects.

Notice how you keep framing the issue to align with your view and saying I can see observe all the pieces. That is not a curious mind. That is a mind trying to maintain a particular view. It’s up to you if you want to maintain the boundaries of that view or if you want to go beyond your edges. There are pros and cons with each. 

[Preety_India]

 

31 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Would you agree he would have a right to shoot him at least?

I mean there´s gotta be some kind of repercusion of stealing police officer´s gun. 

 

Maybe shoot him in the leg. 

But any kind of shooting should be legitimate in terms of self defense. The obligation to punish for an offense lies with the court. Police are merely handlers and catchers. Their work is rescue, attendance, recording and arrest.. I don't see why the police are so heavily armed in the US. It's only because of a gun culture. You don't see the police in full protection gear in other countries. Police aren't so threatening elsewhere. 

 

 

[Consept]

39 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

@Serotoninluv  I know Wisconsin is seeing a lot of new pieces and they stand out like a sore thumb.  People are fleeing the big cities and moving to rural areas where there is still some law and order.  The cities have a choice;  Get control of the issue, get help, or fall apart.

What @Serotoninluv is referring to is that you are seeing the 'pieces' that match with the narrative you follow or believe. You could look deeper into the whole thing as to why are there disproportionately more killings in that area by black people, you may stumble upon the fact that white people kill each other quite a lot as well. But if you look at the whole picture, poverty might be an part of the issue as well as other factors, then maybe look at why black people are disproportionately in poverty in America. 

Your view currently, without being insulting, is quite limited, its just a simple 'black people kill each other', if you expand your view its never as simple as you initially think it is. Its like if you were going to study sociology to work out the route of societal problems, before you started you would have a view that you swore was true but after you started studying youd realise there is no one, simple truth, people and societies are complex. You should explore with an open mind  

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

 

Maybe shoot him in the leg. 

But any kind of shooting should be legitimate in terms of self defense. The obligation to punish for an offense lies with the court. Police are merely handlers and catchers. Their work is rescue, attendance, recording and arrest.. I don't see why the police are so heavily armed in the US. It's only because of a gun culture. You don't see the police in full protection gear in other countries. Police aren't so threatening elsewhere. 

 

But the point is, piloting can be done by a computer. Policing cannot.

That analogy fundamentally misunderstands the challenges of policing. It cannot be done algorithmically. And the pilot's life is not in danger by the passengers. The pilot wants to not fly into mountains precisely because it aligns with his survival. A cop being nice to criminals is dangerous to his survival.

If drunk people broke into the cockpit on a regular basis, pilots would shoot them.