Policing Is Hard Work

[remember]

43 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Exactly. You can't expect a drunk person to behave in a sensible or safe manner.

But it's worse than that. The cops in this case didn't know if this guy was merely drunk or on meth or any other drug or just plain psycho. Which makes him unpredictable and more dangerous with a taser in hand.

In the end, if you are so drunk that you wrestle with cops, steal their taser, and fire it as them -- yeah -- you're playing with fire. Of course if he was sober he probably wouldn't have made such a bad decision to resist arrest.

And yet people demonize psychedelics.

you totally convinced me - they should have shot him from the start. by the way he was not even going to give up after he was shot, what an animal!

police really did do everything like in the books and this is a completely day to day case. nothing to see here, have a nice day, madams and sirs.

[Consept]

Policing is hard work, theres no doubt, an officer that goes by the book and does a great job with compassion, day to day never really gets the public recognition they should get.

However there are glaring problems that make it hard to be a 'good' cop. The police dont really have any culpability, so officers can shoot and kill someone and more than likely will get off, there are 1000 police killings per year and and from 2005 to 2017 only 80 were arrested and only 28 were convicted. Theres 50 -100 unarmed killings per year and only 4 were convicted, so essentially they have a license to kill. On top of that the police culture is very much like a gang in that they will defend each other, even lie or at least not 'rat' on a fellow officer, if they were to do so they would get a hard time from their colleagues and most likely have to leave. So this creates a situation where your allegiance is to your fellow officers over the public you are supposed to serve. This will be an issue with humans in general especially with a job like policing, im not sure exactly how you would get around this. 

Add to that limited training, both in general police duties but also in things like compassion, addiction, mental health, which are situations that police usually find themselves in. I think it calls for some rethink of how the police work. Theres also issues with police having to police communities they dont really understand, for example a white cop from the suburbs having to police and inner city predominantly black area, that would be very difficult. 

Of course the gun culture is underlying issue as well which makes everything a lot more dangerous and i think would put officers further on edge, knowing anyone they stop could potentially have a gun, this isnt the case in Europe for example. So all this is really a recipe for trouble and it no wonder problems are happening. You teach people how to be killers and give them a license to kill then bad things are going to happen, imagine that % that are racist or prejudice as well and how that plays out with all these factors 

 

  

[tenta]

From what I see, the cop that shot him was the one who he attempted to taze while he was running away, so the cop figured that if he was tazed by him, he wouldn't let him run away further and would shoot him, which is bad because you can just report his offences afterwards, or he did it because of panic. If he did it because of panic he should have told himself "I won't shoot this guy if he tries to taze me, my partner is next to me".

If he was tazed successfully then the guy could have taken his gun and shot at his partner, that's why he shouldn't have chased someone with a tazer and instead let him run then get other people to arrest him for his offences instead of killing him.

Also remember, more importantly, he shot him while seeing that he was running away and not attacking them because he never turned around.

But I understand it was a messy situation.

Edited June 16, 2020 by tenta

[remember]

50 minutes ago, tenta said:

From what I see, the cop that shot him was the one who he attempted to taze while he was running away, so the cop figured that if he was tazed by him, he wouldn't let him run away further and would shoot him, which is bad because you can just report his offences afterwards, or he did it because of panic. If he did it because of panic he should have told himself "I won't shoot this guy if he tries to taze me, my partner is next to me".

If he was tazed successfully then the guy could have taken his gun and shot at his partner, that's why he should have chased someone with a tazer and instead let him run then get other people to arrest him for his offences instead of killing him.

Also remember, more importantly, he shot him while seeing that he was running away and not attacking them.

But I understand it was a messy situation.

i rewatched it, too. at first i thought it was the cop in the back the one who didn’t hold a tazer. but if watching it several times you can see how he is reaching for the gun while running, already preparing for shooting him if tazering would fail - so he prepares to shoot his gun while haven’t shot the tazer yet. rayshard turns around as if he can sense it coming, shooting off the tazer, while the gun is already almost pointing at him.

and then shooting on lethal points - what kind of instinct is that? shooting someone who’s running away? i really would want to ask that to the cop.

@Consept regarding the video, i can understand that - ofc its stressful to be police, and if they don’t shoot first they can get shot in many situations. i was shocked by some of the pictures you could see in the video - i guess this is one of the cases which shows up on youtube.

Edited June 16, 2020 by remember

[Scholar]

Quote

Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

How can we create systemic change with fear? How can we expect the governments to change if we ourselves are driven by fear?

Do you not see that when you tell a person to fear the police, when you show him something that makes him fear the police, that this is the result? When you give a victim a narrative of victimhood, what will that do? Will that make him fearful or loving? Will it damage him or heal him? Narrative is everything, it can be empowering or crippling. You can decide what you choose for your fellow brothers and sister.

 

Fear cannot create change towards the Good, because fear is that which resists the Good. It is that which cannot accept and cannot love. How do you expect consciousness to increase if that by which you seek to increase it is that which blinds you from seeing the Truth?

Fear is the very reason why any of this is happening, if you continue to choose fear it will divide not unify us.

 

People are understanding from a place of fear and fear shall be that which they see. People are protesting from a place of fear and fear shall be that which they get.

 

 

Why are you taking this dream so seriously if you claim not to be asleep? Why is it that fear motivates you when you claim to see Love?

[Nak Khid]

1 hour ago, tenta said:

 

Also remember, more importantly, he shot him while seeing that he was running away and not attacking them because he never turned around.

 

 

WATCH,   this is new video 

https://vp.nyt.com/video/2020/06/14/87042_1_14-brooks-vid4_wg_720p.mp4

 

______________________________________

more from same article, NY Times

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/14/us/videos-rayshard-brooks-shooting-atlanta-police.html

 

 

.

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by Nak Khid

[AtheisticNonduality]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Exactly. You can't expect a drunk person to behave in a sensible or safe manner.

But it's worse than that. The cops in this case didn't know if this guy was merely drunk or on meth or any other drug or just plain psycho. Which makes him unpredictable and more dangerous with a taser in hand.

In the end, if you are so drunk that you wrestle with cops, steal their taser, and fire it as them -- yeah -- you're playing with fire. Of course if he was sober he probably wouldn't have made such a bad decision to resist arrest.

And yet people demonize psychedelics.

Yeah, Leo, psychedelics are really bad because the damage the brain, just like porn.  You're just a drug addict, Leo.  Now record the hot witch girlfriend video and upload it today.  Pls no ban me.  I sorry.

Edited June 16, 2020 by AtheisticNonduality

[tenta]

38 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

 

WATCH,   this is new video 

https://vp.nyt.com/video/2020/06/14/87042_1_14-brooks-vid4_wg_720p.mp4

 

______________________________________

more from same article, NY Times

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/14/us/videos-rayshard-brooks-shooting-atlanta-police.html

 

 

.

 

+1

[Recursoinominado]

Most people are clueless as fuck as the dangers of the world, as someone who lives in Brazil and saw medieval shit going on on a regular basis, I look at people from stage green people from developed places as basically lost children, babbling beautiful ideas with no grounding in real-world experience at all.

People that are way too hateful on cops wouldn't last one day without them.

Here in Brazil we have a militarized police force, they are known to be animals and they are trained to be. People shit on them often but once in a while, the police go on a strike (in spite of it being unconstitutional, but, who will force them to work?) and man, all hell breaks loose, the city just stops, riots, looters, kidnappings, assaults EVERYWHERE, the city looks like the movie The Purge, everyone is locked inside their houses while the criminals run free through the city. 

And that's when I really appreciate the importance of the cops, as bad as they seem and as corrupt as they are. The problem is way more complex than stage green people like to admit. 

[AtheisticNonduality]

5 minutes ago, Recursoinominado said:

Most people are clueless as fuck as the dangers of the world, as someone who lives in Brazil and saw medieval shit going on on a regular basis, I look at people from stage green people from developed places as basically lost children, babbling beautiful ideas with no grounding in real-world experience at all.

People that are way too hateful on cops wouldn't last one day without them.

Here in Brazil we have a militarized police force, they are known to be animals and they are trained to be. People shit on them often but once in a while, the police go on a strike (in spite of it being unconstitutional, but, who will force them to work?) and man, all hell breaks loose, the city just stops, riots, looters, kidnappings, assaults EVERYWHERE, the city looks like the movie The Purge, everyone is locked inside their houses while the criminals run free through the city. 

And that's when I really appreciate the importance of the cops, as bad as they seem and as corrupt as they are. The problem is way more complex than stage green people like to admit. 

America and Brazil are not at the same level of development.

[Raze]

@Godhead

In 2018 Germany had 901 murders, and the USA had over 16,000. The rate of Germany's police killings is irrelevant, look at the size of Germany's population and amount of murders compared to America's. There are more violent criminals in America so the police kill more often. 

@Preety_India

The drunk guy followed their orders perfectly fine for 30 minutes before he went nuts and started fighting them. Nothing indicates that he was attacking them because he didn't understand their orders. Even if he didn't understand their orders and that's why, it doesn't matter, whatever the reason is once you point a taser at a cop's face they can respond with deadly force. He wasn't killed as punishment for a DUI, he was killed because he tried to shoot a cop in the face with a taser and the cop responded by defending himself.

Why not involve weapons when arresting a drunk person? If you are afraid the drunk person is dangerous enough to steal them, that is more reason to bring them, if they didn't have them that would mean they end up in a fist fight with a drunk person. The police always need to be a step ahead.

The police did arrest him without using a taser or guns, it was only until he started resisting that they tried to tase him, and only when he aimed the taser at them that they shot him.

They couldn't have easily chased him down because he pointed a taser right at the cop's face, there is no place in the world where you can point a taser at a armed cop's face and they can't respond with lethal force, the cop can't just stand there and let himself be tased in the face. You don't understand how dangerous the situation is, a taser shot at you by a drunk person can result in death, paralysis, losing an eye, a cop cannot allow themselves to be subdued because then their gun can be stolen.

He was clearly a threat to the cops because he already assaulted them and was aiming the taser behind. It doesn't matter if he has trouble aiming, he was trying too, and was in distance where it could hit.

The police fired at him because he tried to shoot them in the face with a taser, not because they got tired of running. If it was the second reason, they would have shot him right as he started running not until he reached behind with the taser.

The cop was fired because the police department had to quell the angry mob.

Edited June 16, 2020 by Raze

[Recursoinominado]

@AtheisticNonduality They are not, but here stage green people still say that cops are unnecessary or they are all bad, all the time, not acknowledging the giant dark problem they have to face every day, for years.

In America right now, the same is happening because people don't realize the complexity of the problem because they are detached from real-world experience and trying to solve a complex problem with what they THINK things should work. 

[tenta]

11 minutes ago, Recursoinominado said:

@AtheisticNonduality They are not, but here stage green people still say that cops are unnecessary or they are all bad, all the time, not acknowledging the giant dark problem they have to face every day, for years.

In America right now, the same is happening because people don't realize the complexity of the problem because they are detached from real-world experience and trying to solve a complex problem with what they THINK things should work. 

Just because people are exposing this as police brutality and murder, doesn't mean they're saying all cops are bad.

[Scholar]

2 minutes ago, tenta said:

Just because people are exposing this as police brutality and murder, doesn't mean they're saying all cops are bad.

And more importantly, not everyone exposing cops or police brutality and murder is stage green. Most people on the streets are far from fully imtegrating stage green, not even close. There are some aspects of green emerging, many of them in unhealthy ways.

 

There is a tendency to look at spiral dynamics in a very simplistic way, as if there was no nuanced. A lot of western people have even problems integrating stage blue and orange in a healthy way, let alone green.

 

Just because someone is against discrimination does not mean they have fully integrated green, nor orange, nor blue. Most people are a mix between all of them, lacking in aspects in all of them and having developed many dysfunctions in all of them.

[Recursoinominado]

@tenta Well, this "fuck the police" mentality that is spreading says otherwise. With the rise of group identity politics, the tendency is to generalize ones action by their "group identity" and that's usually manufactured by the leaders of social movements like Antifa, BLM, feminism movement etc. The intention is to label every one of the chosen group as they want to and establish a fixed idea.

They are not only "exposing', they are actively inciting a war. If they want to change structural racism and police brutality, Rioting is NOT the most effective means. It is comparable to a child tantrum, sure, they could even be mad for a good reason, they have the right to feel as they feel but expressing that breaking shit in the house isn't going to accomplish anything besides a strong(er) reaction from mommy and daddy.  

[Forestluv]

@Consept To add a few more “dots” to your painting. . . In the U.S. there is a powerful police union. Yet the police union is not fighting for the welfare of police officers (such as paid leave, free psychological counseling etc). The main thrust of police unions is pressing for militarization of police. Rather than pushing for reforms that would better serve communities, police unions are pushing for more arrests - as if arrests are a commodity. For example, police officers may receive merit bonuses and promotion for their number of arrests. This changes the mindset from serving the community toward “I need to make more arrests”. As if each arrest was like a businessman making a sale. If the businessman makes more sales, he gets merit bonuses and promotions. . . Adding fire to this is the “War on Drugs”. There is a lot of energy in police forces to win the War on Drugs and make lots of drug-related arrests. Adding further fire is the prison industrial complex. Private American prisons profit on more arrests and more prisoners. There is a conflict of interest. And the U.S. has skyrocket high prison rates. . . 

It’s good to see this discussion hit mainstream and I hope for real structural changes, yet I’m also concerned that those in power can create distraction and distortion. For example, look how many people are distracted by isolated violent events and looting. Look at how the message “defund the police” can be easily framed as “getting rid of the police”.

As another view. I notice how much it takes for the voiceless to have a voice. Millions of voiceless people must come together to have one voice that will be heard. Everyone can now hear this voice, yet it takes millions of voiceless protestors to create one voice that is heard. . . . And one single billionaire person has a voice as strong as millions of voiceless people. 

[Recursoinominado]

@Scholar The social movements that are in the front of this "war", are characterized as green, I didn't said it is fully integrated green as only a few people are and a fully integrated green would be way more peaceful in their approach to social change. 

[Consept]

19 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Consept To add a few more “dots” to your painting. . . In the U.S. there is a powerful police union. Yet the police union is not fighting for the welfare of police officers (such as paid leave, free psychological counseling etc). The main thrust of police unions is pressing for militarization of police. Rather than pushing for reforms that would better serve communities, police unions are pushing for more arrests - as if arrests are a commodity. For example, police officers may receive merit bonuses and promotion for their number of arrests. This changes the mindset from serving the community toward “I need to make more arrests”. As if each arrest was like a businessman making a sale. If the businessman makes more sales, he gets merit bonuses and promotions. . . Adding fire to this is the “War on Drugs”. There is a lot of energy in police forces to win the War on Drugs and make lots of drug-related arrests. Adding further fire is the prison industrial complex. Private American prisons profit on more arrests and more prisoners. There is a conflict of interest. And the U.S. has skyrocket high prison rates. . . 

It’s good to see this discussion hit mainstream and I hope for real structural changes, yet I’m also concerned that those in power can create distraction and distortion. For example, look how many people are distracted by isolated violent events and looting. Look at how the message “defund the police” can be easily framed as “getting rid of the police”.

As another view. I notice how much it takes for the voiceless to have a voice. Millions of voiceless people must come together to have one voice that will be heard. Everyone can now hear this voice, yet it takes millions of voiceless protestors to create one voice that is heard. . . . And one single billionaire person has a voice as strong as millions of voiceless people. 

Theres no question there needs to be police reform in the states, the whole way its setup as you say, with the unions and merits does not make sense for an organisation thats serving the public. If you look at this video below the defensiveness of the union chief really shows the pervading attitude of the police. I do have sympathy because it has been set up in this way for so long, so i wouldnt even necessarily put it on the individual officers but whoevers in charge of keeping the system going really needs to look at it. Has been very positive in terms of people power recently, ive always been down on politics as i dont think the people have much power, but recent events have shown me that there is power there, through the fear of those in charge. One thing we have to be careful of is trial by media or public scenarios, that maybe an issue going forward but im still hopeful they can get the right, for the people, leaders in place. 

Thought this was funny and thought provoking as well -

 

[Consept]

2 hours ago, Recursoinominado said:

Most people are clueless as fuck as the dangers of the world, as someone who lives in Brazil and saw medieval shit going on on a regular basis, I look at people from stage green people from developed places as basically lost children, babbling beautiful ideas with no grounding in real-world experience at all.

People that are way too hateful on cops wouldn't last one day without them.

Here in Brazil we have a militarized police force, they are known to be animals and they are trained to be. People shit on them often but once in a while, the police go on a strike (in spite of it being unconstitutional, but, who will force them to work?) and man, all hell breaks loose, the city just stops, riots, looters, kidnappings, assaults EVERYWHERE, the city looks like the movie The Purge, everyone is locked inside their houses while the criminals run free through the city. 

And that's when I really appreciate the importance of the cops, as bad as they seem and as corrupt as they are. The problem is way more complex than stage green people like to admit. 

Do you think theres anything structurally within the whole system that could change the level of crime? Im just asking because although the police maybe stemming the tide at the moment, it cant go on like that forever 

[Consept]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Exactly. You can't expect a drunk person to behave in a sensible or safe manner.

But it's worse than that. The cops in this case didn't know if this guy was merely drunk or on meth or any other drug or just plain psycho. Which makes him unpredictable and more dangerous with a taser in hand.

In the end, if you are so drunk that you wrestle with cops, steal their taser, and fire it as them -- yeah -- you're playing with fire. Of course if he was sober he probably wouldn't have made such a bad decision to resist arrest.

And yet people demonize psychedelics.

Nah if the persons running away, with a tazer or not i dont think it should shoot to kill. I get that hes playing with fire and shouldnt have done it but to me its not a death sentence. He wasnt being arrested for a violent crime, just let him go or taze him if you can, or even shoot him in the leg. But i dont think the cops were in that much danger that they had to shoot him. If a dog attacks you without drawing blood and then runs away its a bit extreme to then chase it and kill it, let alone a human. I think it just speaks to the police culture that this is considered normal or by the book.