Policing Is Hard Work

[Preety_India]

@abundance exactly. 

@Godhead

 

[Parththakkar12]

27 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

 

@Godhead I totally agree with you. 

I have no idea how Leo doesn't understand such a basic thing.

 

If you look at American culture, they highly covet their Second Amendment rights or the right to own firearms. Firearms are not seen as a bad thing in that culture, it's seen as bad here. In the Wild West, firearms were seen as cool, it is part of a large tradition to own firearms. It's seen as patriotic and macho to own guns to 'protect yourself'. It's one of the core values of US in general. I know, it sounds really weird from outside but well, different cultures are into different things! As Leo said, removing guns from US would be like removing the extra drama from Hindi movies and serials.

If we understand this, then in a weird way, it doesn't sound as dangerous. I never really felt threatened by this in the US. It is a matter of understanding their cultural morals and ethics with guns. Our culture thinks guns are the worst thing ever, we may also want to question that.

[Preety_India]

 

2 minutes ago, Epikur said:

You can not compare randomly countries I guess. For example you can not compare Brazil with India. The people have different temperaments and different history.

I guess the white Americans are maybe like the swiss people. Their guns are the symbol of their freedom I guess. 

I guess you can change cultures if you come literally with A-Bomb like in the case of Japan. They changed in one day.

It feels like saying give up your language. English is the most practical language in the world why wasting time with other languages? Changing systems are very costly. It's like changing your operating system, your religion. 

Say to a muslim their religion is not ok for the modern world. They will not accept it. 

The gun owners have a point when they say that with guns they can defend themselves against their government that becomes tyrannical. Look at china, north korea, cuba, nazi germany. These things can happen.

Things in life are not black and white. 


 

You cannot hold on to what can happen and what cannot happen. 

Technically speaking a lot of things can happen. 

People should stop living in the future and start living in the present. 

Don't think what can happen. 

Rather think what is happening. 

Right now guns are happening and they are pretty bad and they need to be done away with. 

Leo makes it look so easy by saying you can't get rid of guns. Why be so pessimistic? 

Anything is possible if you put your mind to it 

A revolution will happen in America. People will get fed up with guns. 

The CHAZ has been created. Even if it's a small change, it's still a change. 

America will be truly free when the whole of America will be free of guns. Then Tecumseh’s curse will be lifted. 

 

[KingCrimson]

I have never been to the US so I have an extremely limited perspective. One thought that came to mind recently was whether possession of guns relates to the fact that the distances between cities and villages are so big? Let's say you own a farm in the middle of no-man's land the next city and police station being hours away, does that relate to people feeling like they need a weapon in their household to protect themselves? Like some sort of residue from the Wild West? This whole notion of "I have the right and need to protect my property with a gun" is very alien to me as a European.

[Preety_India]

 

5 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

If you look at American culture, they highly covet their Second Amendment rights or the right to own firearms. Firearms are not seen as a bad thing in that culture, it's seen as bad here. In the Wild West, firearms were seen as cool, it is part of a large tradition to own firearms. It's seen as patriotic and macho to own guns to 'protect yourself'. It's one of the core values of US in general. I know, it sounds really weird from outside but well, different cultures are into different things! As Leo said, removing guns from US would be like removing the extra drama from Hindi movies and serials.

If we understand this, then in a weird way, it doesn't sound as dangerous. I never really felt threatened by this in the US. It is a matter of understanding their cultural morals and ethics with guns. Our culture thinks guns are the worst thing ever, we may also want to question that.

I completely understand your point. I have already seen America's obsession and love for the second amendment and how they like to flaunt their toys. 

But children shouldn't play with toys 

Guns are owned by people without proper background checks. Humanity hasn't reached the point of spiritual sanity where guns can be safely used only for the most righteous intents and purposes. Btw when you reach that level of spirituality you wouldn't need to use guns. 

The whole world is not stupid or crazy to not have guns. Guns are weapons just like weapons of mass destruction. Guns create unnecessary fear and paranoia and that's why they are revered in the West. 

If you are going to worship a gun, also learn to face the psychological consequences of the person being shot. 

Guns are only useful as long as they are used. Otherwise they would be sitting in your attic or basement catching rust. 

Guns are no toys. Guns are responsible for millions of suicides per year. Guns are responsible for a lot of domestic homicides. Guns is what America was built on. 

That's why guns need to be gone, because how much ever pride is associated with it, they are a symbol of oppression and destruction. 

Drugs were also considered a symbol of fantasy. 

Coke and junk food was considered a symbol of modernity. 

But times have changed and people shun junk food and organic food has become the latest craze. 

Once people realize that something is toxic, conscious people gradually begin to drop it from their lifestyle menu. Unconscious people later follow suit. 

People need to give up outdated thinking and move on to a healthy future. That's how society evolves. We aren't tribals to remain stuck to outdated patterns.

[Hello from Russia]

Yes, it is hard work. It's mindblowing to me how these people one-sidedly riot with slogans like "defund the police". I think they don't see the bigger picture at all

[remember]

maybe it would be an idea to let gun owners pay a gun tax, a really high one, the tax would be invested in paying for better cop education and then maybe the gun owners would not shoot police anymore because they know what they have payed for.

... even though that might lead to more police sniping because then some people would probably feel like they could hunt down what they somehow think they own. - the more i try to figure out a solution the more i get entangled in how complicated this whole story is.

[Epikur]

@Preety_India

You are optimistic. That kind of people are needed but there are also other kind of people needed to balance it. The time did not necessarily changed because you said so. There is no evidence that times really have changed. 

The most important thing is the worst case scenario. With other scenarios people can deal in general. 

Regarding future: yes it is important specially for people with children. They don't want to make to much experiments: don't change a running system.

Balance is key between being reasonable and emotional.

31 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

As Leo said, removing guns from US would be like removing the extra drama from Hindi movies and serials.

 

It's like hindi movies without singing and dancing and indien food without curry.
 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Epikur

[Parththakkar12]

11 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

 

I completely understand your point. I have already seen America's obsession and love for the second amendment and how they like to flaunt their toys. 

But children shouldn't play with toys 

Guns are owned by people without proper background checks. Humanity hasn't reached the point of spiritual sanity where guns can be safely used only for the most righteous intents and purposes. Btw when you reach that level of spirituality you wouldn't need to use guns. 

The whole world is not stupid or crazy to not have guns. Guns are weapons just like weapons of mass destruction. Guns create unnecessary fear and paranoia and that's why they are revered in the West. 

If you are going to worship a gun, also learn to face the psychological consequences of the person being shot. 

Guns are only useful as long as they are used. Otherwise they would be sitting in your attic or basement catching rust. 

Guns are no toys. Guns are responsible for millions of suicides per year. Guns are responsible for a lot of domestic homicides. Guns is what America was built on. 

That's why guns need to be gone, because how much ever pride is associated with it, they are a symbol of oppression and destruction. 

Drugs were also considered a symbol of fantasy. 

Coke and junk food was considered a symbol of modernity. 

But times have changed and people shun junk food and organic food has become the latest craze. 

Once people realize that something is toxic, conscious people gradually begin to drop it from their lifestyle menu. Unconscious people later follow suit. 

People need to give up outdated thinking and move on to a healthy future. That's how society evolves. We aren't tribals to remain stuck to outdated patterns.

Maybe I wasn't articulate enough. I want to stress this because this is important - American culture sees guns as a symbol of power. So, if you take away their guns, there will be a huge outcry. It will feel like you're taking away their power.

From outside, we can see that guns don't really give you power. Power is something you'd want to wield to get what you want. Guns aren't very useful to civilians in the context of actual, pragmatically useful power. But, because guns are seen as power, people can delude themselves with all sorts of rationalizations. They'll say stuff like 'Guns are useful to keep the government in check. If their rules become too strict, or if they try to stop us from running our businesses, we can fight them! Raawwwrrr!!!' or 'Guns are to protect our freedom!! FREEEEEDOOOOOM!!!!'

They currently have a right to own guns. When you take away their right, no matter how useless, people will not like it and they'll respond negatively. It will be seen as the Federal government trying to enslave them and 'TAKING AWAY THEIR FREEEDOOM!!'. It is a touchy and sensitive topic.

[Preety_India]

@Parththakkar12  a lot of Americans don't want guns. And that's true as well. 

America is very divided on guns. Not every American wants guns.. Things are going to change rapidly. 

 

[Parththakkar12]

Never underestimate the power of this song!

[JosephKnecht]

30 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Leo makes it look so easy by saying you can't get rid of guns. Why be so pessimistic? 

Anything is possible if you put your mind to it 

A revolution will happen in America. People will get fed up with guns. 

They are about 300 million guns in America. How do you get rid of them?

The government can make a law to make it illegal to own a gun? Progress.

299 million guns will be returned or destroyed by honest people. 1 million guns will be kept by criminals. No progress.

The honest people that returned guns to the government now have to purchase new guns from criminals to protect themselves from criminals. This makes illegal gun sales a more lucrative business for criminals. The number of criminals increases. No Progress

The only way to progress is to progress society to a level where there is no need to have criminals. Only when the whole society put their mind into it and realize that they are only shooting at themselves, there can be no progress.

 

[Epikur]

3 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

 

From outside, we can see that guns don't really give you power. Power is something you'd want to wield to get what you want. Guns aren't very useful to civilians in the context of actual, pragmatically useful power.

Or it gives you the power to defend yourself. Otherwise you are dependent on others to protect you. If the other is not in the "mood" you have no alternative. 

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst, I guess.

[Parththakkar12]

7 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@Parththakkar12  a lot of Americans don't want guns. And that's true as well. 

America is very divided on guns. Not every American wants guns.. Things are going to change rapidly. 

 

For sure. The more America moves towards Green (not Orange), the more we'll actually see stricter gun-laws.

I feel it's important to see that Blue/Orange in America will be pro-gun. Here in India, it will be different, Blue will be against guns. It's seen as morally bad to own a gun here.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Parththakkar12

[remember]

20 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

Maybe I wasn't articulate enough. I want to stress this because this is important - American culture sees guns as a symbol of power. So, if you take away their guns, there will be a huge outcry. It will feel like you're taking away their power.

From outside, we can see that guns don't really give you power. Power is something you'd want to wield to get what you want. Guns aren't very useful to civilians in the context of actual, pragmatically useful power. But, because guns are seen as power, people can delude themselves with all sorts of rationalizations. They'll say stuff like 'Guns are useful to keep the government in check. If their rules become too strict, or if they try to stop us from running our businesses, we can fight them! Raawwwrrr!!!' or 'Guns are to protect our freedom!! FREEEEEDOOOOOM!!!!'

They currently have a right to own guns. When you take away their right, no matter how useless, people will not like it and they'll respond negatively. It will be seen as the Federal government trying to enslave them and 'TAKING AWAY THEIR FREEEDOOM!!'. It is a touchy and sensitive topic.

i think i remember in switzerland there is also a gun right, where people own guns who used to be in some kind of civil defence corps. although that is regulated and they somehow get civil education on that, also having an interesting democratic system the difference is somehow an idiological - but it works. although switzerland is known for their neutrality and diplomacy since centuries. in my perception a combination of reducing armors in use and better education and strict gun licensing would probably already help enormously. what about a deal? one half of the country gets free medical system the other half civil education in weapon ownership and some get both.

Edited June 15, 2020 by remember

[Chakra Lion]

Law Enforcers are important to grow the structure into a certain direction. I just wish things could just be settled with good old fists. Everyone needs to get their ass kicked sometimes. And that way you can live to fight again. 

[Parththakkar12]

25 minutes ago, Epikur said:

Or it gives you the power to defend yourself. Otherwise you are dependent on others to protect you. If the other is not in the "mood" you have no alternative. 

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst, I guess.

If you have an issue with depending on other people to protect you, there's a few possible reasons - Either you want to be independent of the police, or you want to depend on them but don't trust their capabilities. The first reason is ridiculous to me - why wouldn't you choose to take help from an available police force? If it's the second reason, i.e. you don't trust them to show up on time, I can kinda understand. I personally would trust their capabilities, the police there is pretty darn good.

It is interesting to me that it's such a coveted right to own a gun, even though you don't have the right to use that gun to kill people! I wonder what kind of power would you get out of owning a gun.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Parththakkar12

[DrewNows]

So I glimpsed the title of this thread again “pacifying hard work” ?

[Preety_India]

 

1 minute ago, DrewNows said:

So I glimpsed the title of this thread again “pacifying hard work” ?

 

[Yog]

Some might find this a bit insightful.

The way your body does policing makes human policing look like angel work.