The concept of freedom in the us

[ArchangelG]

I seen a couple of videos of people going around asking americans what they like most about the us and a lot them answers freedom. And it seems to be rooted in a LOT of pride. But here in Europe it's not emphasized at all.

Why is freedom emphasized so much?

And what does it really mean from an american collective perspective?

 

[Forestluv]

The idea of freedom is deeply ingrained in American psyche and culture. Consider the American National Anthem. It is about fighting for freedom. Every stanza ends with the phrase “Over the land of the free and the home of the brave!”.

I often hear Americans talk about American freedom. Yet they often value freedom in the context of their values. For example, I someone is expressing freedom of speech, many Americans support it if it is aligned with their values. Then, their freedom of speech should be protected. Yet if it the message is counter to their values, then the other person(s) are unpatriotic troublemakers and should be silenced for the good of America. . . .Look at how many Americans are portraying the current protestors as troublemakers that are bad for America. . . 

[DivineSoda]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

The idea of freedom is deeply ingrained in American psyche and culture. Consider the American National Anthem. It is about fighting for freedom. Every stanza ends with the phrase “Over the land of the free and the home of the brave!”.

I often hear Americans talk about American freedom. Yet they often value freedom in the context of their values. For example, I someone is expressing freedom of speech, many Americans support it if it is aligned with their values. Then, their freedom of speech should be protected. Yet if it the message is counter to their values, then the other person(s) are unpatriotic troublemakers and should be silenced for the good of America. . . .Look at how many Americans are portraying the current protestors as troublemakers that are bad for America. . . 

Yea, kind of how we portrayed the people protesting the lockdown as troublemakers about a month ago right here on this forum. Now all of a sudden we flip it around. 

To the OP, why is America so obsessed with the notion of freedom? Because that's how we were raised (ahem, brainwashed). We stood every morning before school and pledged our allegiance to the flag and everything it stood for (Ex: freedom).

This is of course done to make us believe we are free, even when the opposite becomes true. It's a form of control. There are many cards played to maintain this delusion. The current Floyd protests are another example. We don't even know who or what is creating the oppression anymore. We think it's just a racist police force that has too much power, but it actually goes way deeper than that. So even when the nation is on fire, we still believe we are free because we had the right to burn it to the ground ?. 

I could go on and on. Bottom line is, we are obsessed with the idea of freedom. That idea is what is known as the American Dream. As George Carlin once said, they call it the American dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it (and we very much are). 

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free" ― Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe

[Forestluv]

55 minutes ago, DivineSoda said:

Yea, kind of how we portrayed the people protesting the lockdown as troublemakers about a month ago right here on this forum. Now all of a sudden we flip it around. 

This view misses the difference between criticizing from above and criticizing from below. Orange/Green/Yellow criticizing Red/Blue from above is different than Red/Blue criticizing Green from below. Yet one would need to reach a meta view to see that difference. 

The view itself isn’t wrong, however it is only one piece of the puzzle that cannot see the meta view of the entire puzzle and how the pieces are connected.

[mandyjw]

We love, love, LOVE freedom, but we don't really know what it is.  That's why the arrogance, MERICA, fighting for freedom BS.

 Freedom is Love though, so we aren't too far off. 

Just need some Russian dude to explain it to us. 

[Consept]

i think that all cultures looking to build need a common goal to fight towards. Americas concept of freedom is very romantic and probably exciting at the time it was conceived but in reality its just another way to get people working for the rich people above them. Its more insidious because it gives people hope that if they just work hard enough theyll be like the rich people that are lauded in American society, this works really well for the government because if they do become rich, great, if they dont they still work themselves to the bone trying to get there, its no coincidence that America is one of the only countries in the world without a statutory paid work leave. 

Aside from that things like the pledge of allegiance and American exceptionalism, work as a way to indoctrinate people that America is undoubtedly the best country in the world and that patriotism is important. If a country were truly free i dont think theyd need to drum it into their citizens so much. As was said before youre free to agree with them and free to be ostracised if you disagree. But i do find the concept of freedom in America quite fascinating, in our current world i think the only true freedom you can have is mental freedom and i would say America is trailing behind in that.

 

   

[DivineSoda]

7 hours ago, mandyjw said:

Just need some Russian dude to explain it to us. 

 

[ArchangelG]

On 2020-06-14 at 9:30 PM, DivineSoda said:

To the OP, why is America so obsessed with the notion of freedom? Because that's how we were raised (ahem, brainwashed). We stood every morning before school and pledged our allegiance to the flag and everything it stood for (Ex: freedom).

Wow! being from Sweden, which is probably by far the most unpatriotic country in the world, this is quite shocking.

Would you say that this standard all across the US, or just in some parts(the south for example)?

[DivineSoda]

@ArchangelG It's amazing to hear you react like that. It was only after I woke up did I realize looking back just how insane the Pledge of Allegiance really was. I believe the vast majority of all public schools mandate this. Also at all sporting events we stand, remove our hats, and sing the National Anthem. I've tried not participating in that, it's super awkward. 

This obviously only scratches the surface. I could go on and on about how we are brainwashed with patriotic bullshit. 

Let's see if I remember... "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands. One nation, under God, indivisible (lol), with liberty and justice for all (also lol)."

[ArchangelG]

1 hour ago, DivineSoda said:

This obviously only scratches the surface. I could go on and on about how we are brainwashed with patriotic bullshit.

Please, enlighten me!

[DivineSoda]

@ArchangelG To explain the situation properly would get me banned on this forum, so I'm afraid I can't. ?

I envy that you live in Sweden though. Seems like a pretty awesome place from what I know. 

[ArchangelG]

@DivineSoda we got are fair share of collective ignorence here as well. 

According to Hofstede's culrtural compass Sweden is the most feminine country in the world. And the way this manifests is complete lack of responsability, politically, collectively and individually, when REAL issues present themselves. Cause nothing REALLY bad could ever happen in Sweden in course!

https://www.hofstede-insights.com/product/compare-countries/

Also, the assumption that Sweden has created the best welfere state like ever is deeply ingrained. But it's so suppressed and covered up with something I would call fake humbleness, which not always is a pretty sight.

[Forestluv]

10 hours ago, DivineSoda said:

It's amazing to hear you react like that. It was only after I woke up did I realize looking back just how insane the Pledge of Allegiance really was. I believe the vast majority of all public schools mandate this. Also at all sporting events we stand, remove our hats, and sing the National Anthem. I've tried not participating in that, it's super awkward. 

Same here. In school, we had to recite the Pledge of Allegiance to the American flag everyday in school. It starts so early for children that it seems normal to us. Even in High School, we recited the Pledge everyday in home room. It’s was something we had to do and I didn’t really take it serious. Almost like saying “grace” before a meal. It’s just whatever. Yet I never realized how it’s insane indoctrination of nationalism. I was in my 30s and one day I say a video clip of children saying pledge to their flag. Perhaps North Korea. I was like “Whoa, that’s messed up. I’m glad we don’t do that in America. . . Omigod!! We do that here too!!”.

 

[Jacobsrw]

On 14/06/2020 at 3:43 AM, ArchangelG said:

I seen a couple of videos of people going around asking americans what they like most about the us and a lot them answers freedom. And it seems to be rooted in a LOT of pride. But here in Europe it's not emphasized at all.

Why is freedom emphasized so much?

And what does it really mean from an american collective perspective?

 

Firstly, ultimate freedom is an utter delusion. It is a direct stemming from notions such as liberalism. Ultimate freedom can not be granted to a finite self because they are polar opposites. To be a self one is limited, to have freedom one must be unlimited. Therefore, freedom is impossible from such a position. 

Interactional and contractional freedom is possible, since it itself is limited. So one can have freedom up until a point it impinges upon a collective consensus. Beyond that point it is selfishness masquerading as freedom.

True freedom is consciousness. The only consciousness there is. Freedom of infinite imagination, from which everything exist.

To answer you question about America, I’d say partly it desires freedom purely out of greed and power. For to have freedom is to be unrestricted by surrounding forces. Hence, America’s fascination with the military, guns, surveillance and economic precedents.

America thrives and operates from a materialistic framework. In the perspective of the collective, this only deludes people into granting their apparent “physical“ experience over the awareness behind it. In other words, people are locked in paradigm wars of materialism because their environment produces it. Who’s materialism is more superior than another’s, that’s all we see in the world at the moment.

[Leo Gura]

It's just a cultural thing.

[DivineSoda]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's just a cultural thing.

You got it. CULTural. ?