A more positive outlook of pickup - game

[anthony_sh1]

I always had a problem with pickup/game because it was too deceitful for me, involves to many lies and manipulation to the other person just to get a selfish outcome or result, by this I mean, doing something (or not doing) to get something of her without really caring about her, or her agenda. So, they usually tell you that you have to follow some rules or principles by the book to do this which were against my values, like honesty or respect, so I was asking myself what about integrity and my values? How lying or being deceitful to a woman is a good starting point? I know that some guys just want to get laid and move on, but still I don't get why you need to be false, or inauthentic to do this.

Don't get me wrong I know why men look for pickup or game, we want to be more inhibited, decisive, confident, learn how to convey our personality, etc. But the way to do this was my problem.

There are better and mindful ways to do this, in a more responsible way, without playing totally selfish games. Funny enough one of the guys that show you how to do this is from RSD (Derek). Which I highly recommend, I think this is one of the few guys that I know, that makes you put your values first, before women or whatever, and be a man with integrity, I know that this isn't the only guy, but was one of the most influential for me.

So, as I said before most of the problems that guys have with women, is because they are too scared, they don't know how to convey their personality, they are too timid, they can get rid of all of this shit that is getting on their own way and be attractive to women without learn tricks, being deceitful, or lying, etc.

One of the most important things that you can learn is that there are women that naturally are attracted to you, if you're honest, know who you are, know where you're going, know your values, and you sincerely express your identity, your personality, your beliefs, you're humour, etc. expressing all of this unapologetically is what are going to attract and screen women out, it's just compatibility.

Why would you want to date someone you have to pretend to be someone else? or be persuading or manipulating them to be with you? I just don't get it. I think this is a totally waste of time, time that you can spend whit compatible and quality women and people in general.

And of course, this is just an excerpt of this more "positive outlook" on game, and a totally game changer, at least for me. You still need to know yourself, take action and being social, being responsible for yourself, etc. 

[Onemanwolfpac]

Is makeup manipulation? Spanx? Sports bra? Flirting? Everyone, male or female is looking for a edge. TBH there's a fine line between persuasion and manipulation. I worked in sales ages ago and I crushed it. I learned a lot from people and human psychology. You can't make someone buy something they don't want the same way you can't make someone like you. What helped me in dating and in sales was spotting time vampires. I am a closer. I always go for the close. There's a way you can read buying temperature in people because the customer is already interested in the product. You don't need a song and dance. It interrupts your flow to close other sales. Dating isn't different. You are selling your self. Not everyone is buying. You can put your best foot forward. Even then, some people are not interested which is fine. The annoying thing is time vampires. Avoid at all costs. In sales, scarcity is used to close. There's a sale but there's a time line. Again, the same follows with my time. I have no time for drama, flakes, ghosting, and any nonsense. 

Unsure of how old you are? I put myself through college working part time in sales. No student loans. Hourly + commission on sales. I have acquired people skills and ita transferable in other areas of life. I highly recommend it. 

I heed caution. There's a lot of snake oil salesman. Lots of gurus be it business or Dating. You have everyone selling you products on how to sell. They don't have a product. They sell you how to sell. Tai Lopez is a classic example. You get bombarded by these type of characters on YouTube all the time. Of course, everyone is rich, has millions of dollars, lambos + a harem of attractive women who are clearly on payroll but no mention of that. Lots of snakes. The majority of the info sold is free in a book. The same goes for the dating stuff. 

[EnlightenmentBlog]

You can always tailor your game however you want. See the results. It's usually a balance between integrity and manipulation. That's just life. All people do it to different extents. You set your own limits. Just know that women are somewhat programmed to like a more badass version of yourself. It wouldn't hurt if you show it from time to time. 

[hamedsf]

again another limiting belief coming from unknown source.

pickup isn't always involved with lying and manipulation. it's rather an "Art of Communication" with women. 

although everything can be wrapped up with mischievous behaviors but it's not good or bad per se.

[Onemanwolfpac]

7 hours ago, hamedsf said:

again another limiting belief coming from unknown source.

pickup isn't always involved with lying and manipulation. it's rather an "Art of Communication" with women. 

although everything can be wrapped up with mischievous behaviors but it's not good or bad per se.

Its pretty dead at this point. All content is scrubbed. There's subs online and most don't talk to girls or get laid. They pirate everything. Keyboard warriors. 

Everyone wants a boost or upgrade. The best thing i found was working sales and putting myself through school debt free. Salary + commission gig part time. Full time school. I learned social equity and I understand buying temperature. 

Following pandemic, I highly recommend it. You still have to engage in general but most don't do that. 

[universe]

How is your situation now, did you stop thinking about ways to "improve your market value"?

What did you do to overcome your fears that held your authentic self back?

[LfcCharlie4]

@anthony_sh1 I agree that manipulation & lying is completely wrong, but instead, why not use PU to help develop yourself into the man you want to be and become your best version. 

Any “canned” techniques are pretty BS and simply a starting point, true “game” sure involves some “tactics” but I wouldn’t even call them that, it’s more just learning how to communicate effectively with women. Just like if you went to the gym & didn’t know how to lift weights someone would help you, you wouldn’t just lift them incorrectly and not fix them would you? 

It’s about becoming the man you want to be, like you said, while learning the fundamentals of attraction and comfort without being manipulative or lying, yes it’s possible! 
 

Good “game” looks as natural and authentic as possible, the dancing monkey kind of game is just stupid & unnecessary.

I find it funny you mention about manipulation & lying and then think RSD are some sort of saviour in this. 
 

RSD are the perfect example of exploring guys, lol. 
 

They have 30+ online products for guys to purchase, and know exactly how to make them feel so that “this one will be the answer” and keep them on the RSD hamster wheel. Then look at stories from their boot camps, most say they barely spent any time with the instructor they paid for, and were with “assistants” 

The whole biz model of RSD is based on you spinning your wheels and not getting any results lol. 
 

For example a guy who was working with RSD Todd was told he was doing very well, yet hadn’t been with a women in the 9 months he was going out, but Todd said his skills were “improving.” 
 

I would never ever recommend anyone learn this from RSD lol. They of course have some great stuff, but the whole biz model is pretty flawed imo.

Imo, Dating/ Attraction, is about becoming the best man you can be, and that includes learning social and communication skills with women (and men) & doing so in an authentic way that doesn’t involve you manipulating or lying to girls, but just being your best authentic you. There is a huge difference between attraction and manipulation. 

[anthony_sh1]

@LfcCharlie4 Agreed, especially on the RSD stuff,  that's why I said that is funny coming from one of this guys, but in my opinion the one I mentioned is really different from other products of RSD that I saw, maybe it sounds cliche, but I really don't follow other coaches or even like other programs and I am not looking for new, so that's something, especially now. But basically what you learn is communication skills, how to handle social pressure, that I think it's huge too, etc. 

[LfcCharlie4]

@anthony_sh1 Yeah definitely, sadly, there is more money to be made keeping people on the hamster wheel...look at Big Pharma lol. 

Yep, Social Skills is name of the game, most of it boils down to compliance and overcoming objections in terms of the 'technical' side of game, essentially becoming more and more of a 'refined natural.' 

But, yes I haven't really checked out Derek,so can't comment. 

I see PU as a way to become your best self, and live your dream life, people using as a way to manipulate are really missing out imo, but learning the skillset of something like Cold Approach is of course super important. 

[anthony_sh1]

@Onemanwolfpac I totally get what you said about sales, that's why I wrote the last part about screening, it's like a marketing thing, you're basically marketing yourself, and the way you do that it's by conveying your personality, sense of humor, values, goals, etc. basically, letting her know the value that she will get by spending time with you, by doing this you will attract women that is naturally attracted to you, and avoid wasting your time with women who's not compatible with you.

I really don't fucking persuade, manipulate or try to convince a woman to be with me, it's like cheap sales man trying to get you to buy a shitty product, in this case yourself, this is the way I think about puas, or players, not all of them of course.

And the results you will get will not be the same as if you are more persuasive or manipulative, but I am totally ok with that.

Edited June 17, 2020 by anthony_sh1

[LfcCharlie4]

@anthony_sh1 Exactly, it's basically conscious marketing but with yourself lol. 

Nobody wants to be sold a shitty product, everyone loves buying things that improve their life.

[Onemanwolfpac]

8 hours ago, anthony_sh1 said:

@Onemanwolfpac I totally get what you said about sales, that's why I wrote the last part about screening, it's like a marketing thing, you're basically marketing yourself, and the way you do that it's by conveying your personality, sense of humor, values, goals, etc. basically, letting her know the value that she will get by spending time with you, by doing this you will attract women that is naturally attracted to you, and avoid wasting your time with women who's not compatible with you.

I really don't fucking persuade, manipulate or try to convince a woman to be with me, it's like cheap sales man trying to get you to buy a shitty product, in this case yourself, this is the way I think about puas, or players, not all of them of course.

And the results you will get will not be the same as if you are more persuasive or manipulative, but I am totally ok with that.

You leave money on the table. 

Persuasion is what you do to close in sales. I close. I apologise for nothing. Someone was buying. Buyers remorse is from hard closers and returns follow. 

I was working out under a tree in a park (rings) . A cute young girl comes by and my response was "Your late but you made it!" She thought it was fun. Game on. 

Go through your high school year book. Do you know how many are single moms and or pump and dumped? You already have enough morals to heed caution in being a neanderthal. The irony is, you are cutting yourself off from the knees by playing safe. Preserve the little ego. I can hold to my conviction of i wasn't manipulative. It reminds me of dudes that say they never get rejected. Lmfao they don't chat up girls. 

I was to seller in the country part time as a college kid. Do you understand how many "rejections?" i don't give a fuck. The same goes for dating. All i care is she's cute, fit, feminine, and wants to smash. 

Actual manipulation imho is dudes that pretend to be this asexual stuffy and wants to listen to her problems about the guys who pump and dump but never return her calls. These are the real worms. 

Personality, i enjoy the results I get. There's a real disconnect on the rejection aspect. Game is sales. You are the product. Lol some products are easier to sell than others. I have been fasting for all of pandemic. I am going OMAD soon. I am reading ACIM and other texts. I Meditate and pray but I love to smash. I also don't watch porn. I don't need it. I am not struggling in that regard. 

Some tall, dark and handsome +++ really aesthetic dude is going to tell her to take her clothes off. I do that. You can too or not. 

Edited June 17, 2020 by Onemanwolfpac

[anthony_sh1]

@Onemanwolfpac I think you don't understand a thing of what I wrote, do it again. Now tell me how am I preserving my little ego, or playing safe? I do this because I don't want this to be a complete selfish thing caring just for me, but about her too, a win/win, this is just better for everyone, now the way I do this I written in the post, how am I preserving my little ego by doing this? if you know better ways to do this, tell me, I don't think the ego is envolved at all. 

Now I think the issue is your definition of persuasion, you got to keep in mind that we're talking about people, not just things. But I totally understand being emotionally relevant, and there are various ways to do this, persuasion is one of them.