Emptiness of Being

[Kinjal]

What does it feel like....

Edited June 12, 2020 by Kinjal

[Member]

Emptiness and being are self-contradictory. You cannot be emptiness while being.

Emptiness is the same as when you faint or you're in a coma... or when you die (spiritually or physically).

[Kinjal]

@Member then what is being?

[Member]

3 minutes ago, Kinjal said:

@Member then what is being?

Being is everything that you make of it. It is you being alive and projecting space and time like a mirror reflecting itself to infinity.

[Kinjal]

@Member I believe that feeling of emptiness is being.

[Forestluv]

Consider that there is emptiness and there is Emptiness. I’ve noticed many people misunderstand people describing Emptiness as being emptiness, because they have only known emptiness and have not yet had a glimpse of Emptiness. 

I remember being at a mediation event and the dharma talk was about the beauty of Emptiness. Later, I remember a woman saying “I can’t believe they are talking about emptiness as being beautiful. I had to deal with emptiness through my clinical depression and it was not beautiful. It was awful”. She was misunderstanding pointers to Emptiness as being emptiness because she was limited by her experiential range. When I tried to talk about a transcendent Emptiness, she couldn’t get it because she had never had a glimpse of it and she was unable to imagine it. 

At a ‘lower level’ one may think of emptiness as being the feeling of loneliness. That feeling of having no meaning or purpose. “My life is empty, I feel a dreadful sense of emptiness”. . . Yet to me, it seems like you are well above this level and evolving. . .  

[Display_Name]

1 hour ago, Kinjal said:

What does it feel like....

What does your hand see? Where does a sound come from? What's behind your head? Where does a thought happen? Initial glimpse is very simple.

[Kinjal]

@Serotoninluv so I think that I'm going in right direction from your perspective. Being alone. And I like to be alone because that's when I think clearly. 

[Forestluv]

@Kinjal One thing I do is sit and simply observe the Emptiness from which all things arise. Sometimes feelings of sadness or appreciation of beauty arise, yet that’s not it either - since that also arises from Emptiness. 

[Kinjal]

@Serotoninluv I don't get it when you say that simply observe the emptiness. What do you mean by the phrase "simply observe the emptiness"? Is it mean that sit in a place with open eyes and observe the changes occurring in inside and outside my body without doing or thinking about anything else in that moment?

Edited June 12, 2020 by Kinjal

[Forestluv]

19 minutes ago, Kinjal said:

@Serotoninluv I don't get it when you say that simply observe the emptiness. What do you mean by the phrase "simply observe the emptiness"? Is it mean that sit in a place with open eyes and observe the changes occurring in inside and outside my body without doing or thinking about anything else in that moment?

Thinking can be a major distraction. Thoughts are just impulses that arise, like anything else that arises - yet the mind can get so immersed within thoughts. It’s an advanced stage to allow thoughts to arise without getting sucked into them. Yet, I have found trying to stop thoughts isn’t good either. I’ve found it best to relax the mind and body as much as possible and allow that’s to pass without grabbing hold. Just like I am allowing the bird chirps around me to arise and dissolve without grabbing hold.

The mind is conditioned to create separate “things”. The birds chirps are separate from the trees. As well, the mind is conditioned to perceive “internal” and “external”. My thoughts are “internal” and the bird chirps are “external”. Yet when I close my eyes right now, the thoughts and bird chirps are arising in the same space. I need to create “internal” and “external” separation.

One thing that helped me was to get into lucid dreaming. I wanted to lucid dream while I was asleep. (To realize I am dreaming and to be able to control the dream). I had little success in lucid dreaming, yet to my surprise I started to lucid dream while awake. . . One of the exercises of lucid dreaming is to do “reality checks” during the day. One is to pinch your nose and try to breath. If you can’t breath through the pinched nose, you awake. If you can breath through the pinched nose, you realize you are within a dream. They key is to do the reality check so genuinely that you really don’t know if you are awake or dreaming. You’ve got to pause and convince yourself that you may be dreaming. This isn’t easy, because of course we know we are really awake and pretending we don’t know. My big breakthrough was when I dream that materialized when I was awake. The two realities merged as one and I really didn’t know if I was awake or dreaming. 100% didn’t know. I pinched my nose as a reality check and could breath. Yet I forgot if that meant I was awake or dreaming!

To return to your original question of how can we observe appearances arising from Emptiness. . . . Imagine you are dreaming and you realize you are dreaming. Could you observe the images in the dream as arising from Emptiness? This doesn’t seem to hard to do. Right? The images in the dream aren’t ‘real’. The cars, buildings, birds etc. are all just imagined. Thus, it’s pretty easy to observe as the images arise from Nothing. There is no areal substance below the dream images, they aren’t real. . . Now, do the same thing while you are awake. See that it is all a Dreamscape. An amazingly detailed Dreamscape. The most amazing Dream you can imagine. Where is is all arising from? Emptiness. Not only is it arising from Emptiness, it IS Emptiness (just like the images in your dream in Emptiness). . . They mind may think “Well, what a second. The difference is that stuff while I’m awake is real”. . . Oh yea? Show me one thing in awake life that I cannot dream. . . Hmmm, well. . . There is the law of gravity. . . I can dream that. . . I can feel stuff while I’m awake. I can dream that. . . . There is continuity while I’m awake. I have the same job, the same people, we all share memories. . . I can dream all that. . . . There is nothing about so-called “awake” life that I cannot dream. Realizing that, I can simply gaze around me and enter a dream-like state of observation in which the Dreamscape is arising from Emptiness and is itself Emptiness, just like in a “real” dream. This helps me enter that conscious state.

Another thing that can help are psychedelics because they too dissolve “real vs. imagined” and it becomes easier to observe that it’s all arising from Emptiness and is itself Emptiness. 

[Kinjal]

@Serotoninluv why should I dream about something which is just a fantasy or impractical?

Because I know that dream about materialistic things (Maya) doesn't makes me fulfilled. I want to make a life that actually counts. Because I know that I'm gonna die soon.

So my point is I want to dream about something that makes me fulfilled like get into best university in the world for a masters degree or work in Google or Facebook or something better and I know, it require some sort of skills that I can attain by giving hours, days and years of my life and it's attainable. 

In short, I want to dream about something that I can attain. But, when I dream about these things that makes me think like, oh wait....what I'm doing right now. Shouldn't I have to practice and focus on my skills in this moment and work harder on my skills than just sit in a place. 

My dream makes me work harder and focus on my skills. Even though, I am fragile emotionally. Even though, life fucks me hard all the time. My dream makes me awake all the time. My dream makes me think, do more and more practice. Sometimes makes me impatient. 

But, what I need is that the balance and truth of life that makes me calm and peace. Because right now, all I have is confusion, lots of WHY and no satisfied answer.

 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Kinjal

[Forestluv]

@Kinjal I was speaking of “dream” in the context of lucid dreaming, which isn’t very practical in the context of life purpose dreams. There is a thread on creating dream boards which may be helpful in that area.

[Kinjal]

@Serotoninluv oh. I messed up. Right!

Okay. I got little bit. So, till now I know about only one dream in my life that acts like a ray of light in the darkest time and motivates me, inspires me and telling me that don't take my life just for granted.

And I have no idea about lucid dream.

But tell me if I'm wrong, lucid dreaming like when you fall for a girl and when you close your eyes and out of nowhere, you're thinking about the good moments with her like how she cares about you and some sweet talk from her which gives you glimpse of smile on your face like stuff are you talking about?

[Forestluv]

6 hours ago, Kinjal said:

So, till now I know about only one dream in my life that acts like a ray of light in the darkest time and motivates me, inspires me and telling me that don't take my life just for granted.

There are all sorts of different dreams within the Dreamscape. What you describe above is one type of dream. It can be quite powerful. Visionaries are often this type of dreamer. As well, one could get into LOA in this area.

6 hours ago, Kinjal said:

But tell me if I'm wrong, lucid dreaming like when you fall for a girl and when you close your eyes and out of nowhere, you're thinking about the good moments with her like how she cares about you and some sweet talk from her which gives you glimpse of smile on your face like stuff are you talking about?

This could be another form of dream, depending how deep it goes. If I was just thinking about the her, I wouldn’t consider it a lucid dream. It’s got to go a layer deeper, into that “lost in thought and images zone”. For example, if you are in class and you go so deep into it that you lose touch with your surroundings. It’s as if it is really happening. After 5min. your classmate is shaking your arm whispering “Psssst, wake up.” You then ‘snap out of it’ and it takes you two seconds to realize where you are in class. . . If during the dream, there was not awareness of the dream within the dream, then that is daydreaming. Just like a sleeping dream. If you have a sleeping dream, yet don’t realize you are dreaming, it’s just a regular dream. In this type of lucid dream, there is realization that it is dream - yet no awareness outside the dream. For example, if I am dreaming that I’m in Australia and realized “Whoa, I’m dreaming I’m in Australia. I wonder if I can fly in the dream”. There is awareness of the dream, yet no awareness of the bedroom in which I’m sleeping. (Because I’m in dream Australia). . . . Similarly, if you were dreaming in class, you would be aware that you are in the dream, yet not aware that you are in class. When you classmate wakes you up, for a couple seconds you are like “Whoa, where am I? What happened? (Another second. . . ). Oh!! I’’m in class. I hope nobody noticed I was dreaming:”. I would consider that a lucid dream. . And they can go really deep, depending on expertise level.  There are other forms as well. 

[Kinjal]

@Serotoninluv So, I'm just getting about lucid dreaming, the meaning of it but I'm not fully aware of it right now, what you're trying to say because I think that may be I have lack of theory and years of meditation on my belt. 

But, I think that your dream is created by what you see by your eyes, hear and feel about the topic that you want to dream about and then your subconscious mind is remembered all the information and make a content for your dream. Like, if I don't know about the place Australia, how's the place look like or what are the interesting things about the place that attracts thyself then I can't dream about that place by just knowing the name of that place. So, your lucid dream is part of your life experienced moments which are remembered by your subconscious mind. That's what I believe.

And, for me it's not easy at intermediate stage(close to newbie) by just blacked out for a moment in the sunny day time when you're supposed to work until you are telling yourself that I need to sleep now. I think it's look like your system is going in auto pilot mode for a time-lapse and then again you control over your mind and body and in this auto pilot mode you charged yourself fully. Quick charge approach. I think it this way.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Kinjal

[Forestluv]

@Kinjal Sure thing. There are a lot of people that think about dreams as appearances from the subconscious mind. Exploring this can have a lot of value for some people. For example, imagine someone is subconsciously repressing memories and emotions. They are not consciously aware they are doing this. They are confused about why they behave they way they do and are frustrated they can’t change it. Dreams can allow a person to become conscious of their subconscious and realize “Ohhhh, that’s what’s gaining on!!”. Psychologists may try to access this through EMDR, hypnosis or psychedelics. . . Another example would be someone learning more about who they are via their subconscious mind. For example, someone may have a dream and their subconscious mind may inform the conscious mind that the person is on the wrong track and should re-orient. There may be greater clarity about a relationship or work situation.

You also mention that some dreams can be impractical. There are random, nonsense dreams that don’t have much practical value. Like watching a silly cartoon that doesn’t really apply to one’s life. As well, there can be times in which one “zones out” or “daydreams” during the day. They may be extra tired or bored and “zone out” into for a while. We could say that this is impractical. If I zone out during math class, I’ve missed the entire class and didn’t learn a thing. Now I have to spend extra time catching up in the class or I will get a bad grade.

Yet I would also consider different contexts and different forms of dreams. Through my life, I’ve had a pattern of “getting lost in thought”, “daydreaming” and “zoning out”. I was always told that this was “bad” and that I needed to pay attention. I was told that I was trying to escape from dealing with here and now. In some contexts this is true. My perception of this was changed during a meditation retreat. During the retreat, we spent about 6hrs a day meditating, which was a lot for me. My mind didn’t drift into thinking like “Oh much longer do I have to sit? I forgot to respond to Sally. I need to eat a healthier diet”. Rather, my mind would go into scenarios outside of my regular “me” story. For example, I would go into dreamscapes in which I was hiking in a Rainforest with someone. It seemed very real. . . Then suddenly the bell would go off and I would “snap out of it” and think “Wow, did an hour go by already? That was fast”. . . The meditation teacher told me that this was “wrong” and not what we are here to do. He told me I was addicted to entering these spaces and told me to stop it and remain present, here and now. There is some value in this perspective in some contexts. The problem is completely shutting the door to these dreams. . . During one of the group discussions, I shared about how I was drifting off in these spaces during the meditations. I felt embarrassed and most of the mediators were like “Poor thing. Keep practicing and it will get better”. Yet one woman in the group perked up and said “Omigosh, I’ve been working to do what you are doing for years. How do you do it?”. She was immediately corrected by the group that this type of space is not good. Afterwards, the woman told me that what I was doing was a form of lucid dreaming while awake. This was the first time that anyone told me this could actually have value. This got me interested in lucid dreaming and I went online to look more into it. . . What I’ve found is that these mind spaces can have value in certain contexts, yet can also be impractical in other contexts.

[Seeker_87]

 

[Inliytened1]

On 6/12/2020 at 1:33 PM, Kinjal said:

@Member then what is being?

Pure Being = Pure or Absolute infinity = Pure or Absolute Love = Pure Absolute Nothingness

Pure Nothingness is everything in a formless state or state of pure potential.

Right now you are a particular form or thing.  Your substrate is nothing but you are a piece of it.   So you are nothing and something hehe.  Once you become directly conscious that you are nothing and everthing, so shall you become it.   You will be Pure Being. Your form will die though.

Pure Being feels like Total Bliss or Total Love.

 

[traveler]

This is emptiness being. This is empty beyond all imagination, it is so empty that it doesn't actually exist. That absolute singularity looks like this.

There is not-two, there is just what is. 

The infinite can appear finite, but it never becomes finite.

This is the ultimate death, this is death already. Life and death collapsed. The unfathomable appearing ordinary. 

This is not a huge revelation, it is quite obvious. The reason why it isn't something gigantic and infinite orgasm inspiring, is because it couldn't be any other way. It is totally obvious yet totally unknowable. 

Edit: I take the infinite orgasm inspiring back, that might happen, it is orgasmic in it's impossibility! 

Edited June 14, 2020 by traveler