My requirement of what it would mean to be Enlightened.

[Javfly33]

Let´s you don´t have savings and lose your job, you can´t find another job and end up homeless in the street. Hating the life on the city, kind of tired of the struggle until now in your life surviving, you say "fuck it I can´t do this anymore" and you go to the outskirts of the city to try to get in maybe some abandoned house.

After a few days with no luck you go even go far away and you end up in nature, suddenly you find yourself with no food, little energy, maybe some water that runs from a river, you sit up exhausted at the top of a mountain. You are in shock. And a thought of fear creeps in that says... "This is dangerous, what do I do!, this is the worst situation possible! I don´t have anything, I can´t die this young! What this would mean for my family if they find me dead?"

In that moment, do you know who you are? 

If you are fully enlightened in that moment you will be sitting peacefully letting go of those thoughts of fear, if you are not you will start panicking, will run down the mountain, and go back to the city to struggle to survive.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Javfly33

[Javfly33]

2 minutes ago, Dand said:

What if you have important news and if you don't share it with someone who's waiting to receive it, then the whole world will be enslaved.

Does an enlightened person sit there waiting to die? Or do they use every ounce of their energy to save the world?

This is so absurdly relative haha

@Dand Good question. For the sake of the example, let´s say the person it´s in a stage in his life where they were "done". They were fine living life but they are not so attached to the material world, so if something radical happens they will seriously reconsider if keep struggling would be worth it.

They sadghuru sit for 15 days near a tree, right? First surrender and then we´ll see if it turns out life continue. Maybe a sandwich falls off from the sky

 

[WaveInTheOcean]

3 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Let´s you don´t have savings and lose your job, you can´t find another job and end up homeless in the street. Hating the life on the city, kind of tired of the struggle until now in your life surviving, you say "fuck it I can´t do this anymore" and you go to the outskirts of the city to try to get in maybe some abandoned house.

After a few days with no luck you go even go far away and you end up in nature, suddenly you find yourself with no food, little energy, maybe some water that runs from a river, you sit up exhausted at the top of a mountain. You are in shock. And a thought of fear creeps in that says... "This is dangerous, what do I do!, this is the worst situation possible! I don´t have anything, I can´t die this young! What this would mean for my family if they find me dead?"

In that moment, do you know who you are? 

If you are fully enlightened in that moment you will be sitting peacefully letting go of those thoughts of fear, if you are not you will start panicking, will run down the mountain, and go back to the city to struggle to survive.

First of all, "hating", "struggling", "can't do this anymore", "no luck", "shock", "fear", "worst," , "I don't have anything", ("I do have some things"), "I can't die", "what if...*insert fear*" are all thoughts and feelings that do not arise in me since my awakening.

So up until then this fantasy-dude would not be enlightened. Let's imagine he in the blink of a second gets a full-blown-God-realization in the moment where he is sitting on the top of the mountain (a big fantasy, but we're just playing with the idea, right), then of course:

he will let go of anything
he will become Love itself.

If he will continue his "poor life" in the mountains and perhaps willingly, Lovingly "die" due to starvation, or if he will return to humanity to Love it: that doesn't matter at all. What matters is just that he has remembered what he really is: "The Works."  

poor life<--->rich life is a duality that -- like all other dualities -- is ultimately one and the same thing. No difference.

Edited June 12, 2020 by WaveInTheOcean

[EnlightenmentBlog]

Go watch "Into the wild". You've just described the plot.

Edit: Based on a True story.

Edited June 12, 2020 by EnlightenmentBlog

[Javfly33]

39 minutes ago, EnlightenmentBlog said:

Go watch "Into the wild". You've just described the plot.

Edit: Based on a True story.

I know right? Loved that movie. There's an intuition that my life will end up that way and I'm trying to prepare for the surrender 

[VeganAwake]

@Javfly33 You just won funny Quote Of The Day: ❤

"I'm trying to prepare for the surrender"

Damn Human Condition right...?

The self that's not real is preparing to recognize its own unreality...

Seems kind of like reinforcing a brick wall before you try to battle ram it...

 

 

[EnlightenmentBlog]

39 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

I know right? Loved that movie. There's an intuition that my life will end up that way and I'm trying to prepare for the surrender 

Good for you. Just don't forget that in the movie the main character changed his mind in the end, but it was already too late.

[WaveInTheOcean]

45 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

I know right? Loved that movie. There's an intuition that my life will end up that way and I'm trying to prepare for the surrender 

all human beings ultimately end life that way. dying. alone. Doesn't matter if we prepare or not. It happens. 

There's no point in preparing, you could say, because preparation is not needed. When you die, like really fucking die, you surrender.

To surrender everything = To fully let go = Actual Death. Zero difference between these 3 things. Zero. Trust me. Zero. Also death in itself is a jump into Infinite Love. But let's not get too caught up in language games here.

So if you want to prepare for surrender, just go ahead and die now. That's the best preperation.

buuuuuuuut.........before that, why not have fun and love? <3

Edited June 12, 2020 by WaveInTheOcean

[Javfly33]

10 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

@Javfly33 You just won funny Quote Of The Day: ❤

"I'm trying to prepare for the surrender"

Damn Human Condition right...?

The self that's not real is preparing to recognize its own unreality...

Seems kind of like reinforcing a brick wall before you try to battle ram it...

 

 

@VeganAwake You right but that recognition of the self not being real...that ain´t easy for the self. Sometimes I feel it´s going burn the house inside itself before surrendering.

[Javfly33]

4 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

all human beings ultimately end life that way. dying. alone. Doesn't matter if we prepare or not. It happens. 

There's no point in preparing, you could say, because preparation is not needed. When you die, like really fucking die, you surrender.

To surrender everything = To fully let go = Actual Death. Zero difference between these 3 things. Zero. Trust me. Zero.

So if you want to prepare for surrender, just go ahead and die now. That's the best preperation.

buuuuuuuut.........before that, why not have fun and love? <3

@WaveInTheOcean Right but... I just feel one can´t be having fun and love all the time. So if reality is really a dream and a game, and you can´t die (more than the illusion of the "i") then what is the point of survival? In my opinion, is because most of the people are not really sure if death is real or not. 

[VeganAwake]

3 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

@VeganAwake You right but that recognition of the self not being real...that ain´t easy for the self. Sometimes I feel it´s going burn the house inside itself before surrendering.

Absolutely... it will not hear this message no matter what...

It wants to survive.

Something else recognizes it...❤

[WaveInTheOcean]

14 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

@WaveInTheOcean Right but... I just feel one can´t be having fun and love all the time. So if reality is really a dream and a game, and you can´t die (more than the illusion of the "i") then what is the point of survival? In my opinion, is because most of the people are not really sure if death is real or not. 

The point of survival has inherently its own point: namely survival. From a larger perspective survival is sort of a vehicle for Infinite Imagination to imagine infinite things.

Be that vehicle. Imagine.

Any way, you could also say the point of survival is whatever you make of it / feel / think of it. And this sort of makes you infinitely free. What do you make of it? It's entirely up to you what you make of life.

The point of life is life itself. Experience. It can be beautiful if you want it to be beautiful.

If you don't want it to be beautiful it's not beautiful.

If it's not beautiful, it's because you are not making it beautiful (seeing the beautiful parts of it).

You always choose. Always.

The point of life? Try to go outside in nature on a good warm summer-day and look up on the blue sky. That's the fucking point, right there. Beautiful.

Edited June 12, 2020 by WaveInTheOcean

[Javfly33]

32 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

The point of survival has inherently its own point: namely survival. From a larger perspective survival is sort of a vehicle for Infinite Imagination to imagine infinite things.

Be that vehicle. Imagine.

Any way, you could also say the point of survival is whatever you make of it / feel / think of it. And this sort of makes you infinitely free. What do you make of it? It's entirely up to you what you make of life.

The point of life is life itself. Experience. It can be beautiful if you want it to be beautiful.

If you don't want it to be beautiful it's not beautiful.

If it's not beautiful, it's because you are not making it beautiful (seeing the beautiful parts of it).

You always choose. Always.

The point of life? Try to go outside in nature on a good warm summer-day and look up on the blue sky. That's the fucking point, right there. Beautiful.

Sure, I can have fun. But I´m saying that since I still think I am this body, I am enslaved to the chains of survival. 

If i knew 100% sure that I am not in the body, then I absolutely wouldn´t care at all about my survival. Would I continue to live? Probably, but it wouldn´t make for myself no difference if I have a nice job and a comfortable life or if I live under a bridge the rest of my life. Are you sure that if you lost your job and go live under a bridge you would still have that attitude? 

Would you maintain the attitude of "have fun, love!" if you end up homeless in a cold weather? If not, why? Since you are absolutely sure none of this is real and you are inmortal, you should still be having fun.

[SamueLSD]

11 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

If you are fully enlightened in that moment you will be sitting peacefully letting go of those thoughts of fear

I do that when I meditate, I wouldn't call it enlightenment 

 

[LfcCharlie4]

10 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Sure, I can have fun. But I´m saying that since I still think I am this body, I am enslaved to the chains of survival. 

If i knew 100% sure that I am not in the body, then I absolutely wouldn´t care at all about my survival. Would I continue to live? Probably, but it wouldn´t make for myself no difference if I have a nice job and a comfortable life or if I live under a bridge the rest of my life. Are you sure that if you lost your job and go live under a bridge you would still have that attitude? 

Would you maintain the attitude of "have fun, love!" if you end up homeless in a cold weather? If not, why? Since you are absolutely sure none of this is real and you are inmortal, you should still be having fun.

Of course absolutely it would make no difference whatsoever, but if you’re going to survive, you’d rather do it well right, instead of half asssing life? 
 

I know where this question and thought arises from, and absolutely it’s true, there’s no difference whatsoever.

But, you could easily switch it the other way- 

Why not have a nice job& a comfortable life, spirituality doesn’t always have to be about suffering, you can enjoy the beauty of life while “you” are experiencing this, and then when your time is up, so be it. 
 

I mean you have eternity, what’s the rush ?

[WaveInTheOcean]

12 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Sure, I can have fun. But I´m saying that since I still think I am this body, I am enslaved to the chains of survival. 

If i knew 100% sure that I am not in the body, then I absolutely wouldn´t care at all about my survival. Would I continue to live? Probably, but it wouldn´t make for myself no difference if I have a nice job and a comfortable life or if I live under a bridge the rest of my life. Are you sure that if you lost your job and go live under a bridge you would still have that attitude? 

Would you maintain the attitude of "have fun, love!" if you end up homeless in a cold weather? If not, why? Since you are absolutely sure none of this is real and you are inmortal, you should still be having fun.

Who or what is this "I" that believes it can have fun, and that it is a body OR not-a-body ???

You ARE that BODY of yours. That's much more real to say than believing you are an "agent" inside your head between your eyes and ears.

But you are not ONLY that: you are much more than that: only you don't see it, cos you're caught up in a dualistic mindset of 'me' and 'other', 'my will', 'not my will'. And ofc you are caught. If you were free in your soul you'd see that the distinction between eg. 'your-voluntary-free-will vs. things-that-happen-to-you' is an absolutely arbitrary distinction YOU are making ALL THE TIME, and that you are making it in order to maintain the illusion of "self and other" -- in other words this distinction is equal to survival! 

Your sense-of-self is very narrowly defined. Do you see that? What you define as your self you constrain to only be "your own body" and your attachments/life.

But what about the environment? What about the very floor you are standing on? Could you define yourself without someting around you? Space, walls, nature, things, other people? Think about it? Could you define yourself without anything to contrast yourself with?

The obvious answer -- if you actually care to think deeply about it -- is that: no. You cannot.

Just think about the very air you are breathing. It contains oxygen which is absolutely essential for your biological survival. What creates this oxygen? PLANTS. TREES. 

THE PLANTS AND TREES ARE YOU JUST AS MUCH AS YOUR BODY IS YOU COS YOU BODY'S SURVIVAL IS VERY DEPENDENT ON PLANTS AND TREES EXISTING TO CREATE OXYGEN FOR YOUR BODY.
 

Then think about the Sun. The sun is also 100% you as much as your body is 100% you. Because without the light from the the sun, there would be no photosynthesis = no oxygen for you = no body.

And this goes the other way too! You see? Without any 'conscious organisms'/'sensing bodies', there would be no sun, no stars, no plants, no environment. Because the sun is only shining if there's *someone* to look at it! Your eyes - and brain - is transforming the photons from the Sun *INTO* the Sun! You are a magician! A real fucking magician! You are transforming physical photons into *light*. How fucking AMAZING is that? Those beautiful crown jewels you call 'your eyes'. they are doing it. you are doing it. haha <3 <3 <3

You are creating the Sun. The Sun is creating you. The environment is creating you. You are creating the environment.
The ultimate strange-loop/paradox! It's all fucking YOU(/GOD) !!!!! <3

Then think about the Milky Way which contains the sun/our solar system.
Without the Milky Way our solar system could not exist, because our solar system is dependent on something to rotate around (the big black hole in the center of our galaxy).

And so to infinity. You can also zoom in. What about the heart of yours that is beating, pumping blood to all your cells in your body? Do you feel like/believe that 'beating your heart' is something *you* *do* ???

You don't, naturally, because that would be too much to believe! It's much easier to beat your heart and shine the sun *unconsciously*. You are doing it 24/7 unconsciously. You are never not beating your heart (until you stop it ofc). You are never not shining the Sun (until you stop shining it).

You are absolutely dependent on the heart inside your body functioning properly. And this heart is made of billions of heart-cells. Each one of these cells is absolutely mandatory for your survival (and these cells need energy/O2 = food/air = environment). And what are these cells made of? Biomolecules! Every single molecule in the universe is you! What are the molecules made of? Protons, electrons, neutrons. What are these then made of? Quarks/Quantum fields say QM. And string theory says strings. But what are these strings or QM-fields then made of? And so to infinity. They are made of YOU of course. Consciousness. God. Absolute Infinity. Infinite Potential. Energy. Love.

And your ego is also dependent on "other", i.e. other people.
If there were no other human beings on this planet, and your upbringing were sort of just getting food through a tube from a machine etc etc., then you'd have no ego. 

You can't have an ego if there are no "other ego's/persons" for you to reflect yourself in. Impossible.

You are absolutely totally dependent on your environment. You are a function of your environment and the environment is a function of you!

The tiny depends on the gigantic. And the gigantic depends on the tiny. 

Everything is essential.

Nothing is not-essential.

Your environment is heads of the coin, and 'what you call "I/your persona/body/mind"' is tails of the coin. You are lost because you keep -- consciously and mostly unconsciously -- insisting on only defining 'yourself' as tails of the coin. But in truth you are JUST AS MUCH heads of the coin as you are tails! You can't have one without the other! 

YOU ARE THE WHOLE COIN! *The Works!* The Universe itself! That's you. Ta-daah.

Seeing that you are the whole coin = Awakening.

Only defining yourself as either heads or tails = Maya.

Edited June 13, 2020 by WaveInTheOcean

[Javfly33]

21 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

Who or what is this "I" that believes it can have fun, and that it is a body OR not-a-body ???

You ARE that BODY of yours. That's much more real to say than believing you are an "agent" inside your head between your eyes and ears.

But you are not ONLY that: you are much more than that: only you don't see it, cos you're caught up in a dualistic mindset of 'me' and 'other', 'my will', 'not my will'. And ofc you are caught. If you were free in your soul you'd see that the distinction between eg. 'your-voluntary-free-will vs. things-that-happen-to-you' is an absolutely arbitrary distinction YOU are making ALL THE TIME, and that you are making it in order to maintain the illusion of "self and other" -- in other words this distinction is equal to survival! 

Your sense-of-self is very narrowly defined. Do you see that? What you define as your self you constrain to only be "your own body" and your attachments/life.

But what about the environment? What about the very floor you are standing on? Could you define yourself without someting around you? Space, walls, nature, things, other people? Think about it? Could you define yourself without anything to contrast yourself with?
 

I get what you´re saying. My intention is not to argue with the Truth of Oneness, but rather contemplating how this truth is really present in each moment in our lives.

I know right now I am not conscious that I am ONE, that Everything is my body. Therefore, if this body finds itself homeless, probably I will buy into thoughts of fear and anxiety. If I would be conciouss that I am really ONE, then those thoughts wouln´t make any sense.

By this point I am pretty sure Leo it´s right on with saying that Enlightenement is a state. You can´t get work your way up here with beliefs or memories. Doesn´t matter how many awakenings you have, if right now you feel any kind of attachment or fear, it´s because deep down you are not that sure your body is reality. Deep down there´s still doubts. (Not talking about you btw, I don´t know how much consciouss you are. Although you haven´t answered my question

[WaveInTheOcean]

17 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

I get what you´re saying. My intention is not to argue with the Truth of Oneness, but rather contemplating how this truth is really present in each moment in our lives.

I know right now I am not conscious that I am ONE, that Everything is my body.

Yes, good. (I like this analogy of describing Truth as seeing EVERYTHING as one's own body. Nice one.)

It is in one sense good that you are honest and acknowledge that you are currently not aware of Oneness(the truth). 

It is another sense 'bad' that you actually believe that you are not conscious of *it*, because this belief is in itself -- in a sense, not strictly -- what is hindering you from *getting it*. 

In order to reach enlightenment, you must seek. But you must also stop seeking to *get it*. Question is: How do you seek and not-seek at the same time? Hehe, another crazy paradox.

That's why most teachers preach : "Still your mind. Meditate."  etc. Cos it is only when the rational mind is still / has shut-the-fuck-up that YOU can see YOURSELF as "The Whole", *directly*. Because the rational mind in itself will NEVER get it. It cannot, per definition. Only *you*, as the "consciousness behind thoughts" can get it. But you are hindered from getting it because there is so much "mud" (thoughts) in your field of perception.

Your are seeing with clouded glasses as long as your rational mind is in charge.

Edited June 13, 2020 by WaveInTheOcean