Scarred by DMT

[Nichts]

Hey guys and girls,

For about the last 6 months, I'm having problems with going deep when taking DMT. It all started when I had my first (and til now only) breakthrough experience 6 months ago. I was overwhelmed by it and had a strong ego backlash: Thinking that I kind of "broke" something in my psyche and being scared that I would never be able to return back to "normal". Since then, every time I'm smoking DMT, I have this resistance that keeps me from going deep. Whereas before my breakthrough I could just relax into the experience and let it take me where it wanted me to go, now always fears come up and I try to cling to my "normal state". I would so love to have this ease again that I had before my breakthrough, just being able to relax and go deep.

Has anybody gone through something similar and has any tips for dealing with this resistance?

[electroBeam]

1 hour ago, Nichts said:

Thinking that I kind of "broke" something in my psyche and being scared that I would never be able to return back to "normal".

Correction: you fixed something and now can never go back to insane.

Of course it seems like the reverse to you, but haven't you noticed that th truth is actually the opposite to what you think it is? Subjectivity is real while objectivity is not, feeling is real while thought is not, subtle is real while gross is not, etc.

[Member]

@Nichts @Dand

What scared you the most?

[Nichts]

@Dand Thank you. I'm glad to hear that I'm not alone. And yes, time will heal. I just want it to happen more quickly. I've had about a dozen smaller doses since then, and a few powerful experiences since then, and the fear is still there. Thanks for the tip with journalling. I might try it out.

@electroBeam You're right. I don't think the experience was "bad" in any way, and it is more normal than my "normal" state. And still, that doesn't change the fact that I have a giant fear of ever going there again.

@Member I think the scariest thing was how irreversible it felt. If you use the analogy of a video game: It felt like I somehow glitched my way out of that video game called life, and then accidentally broke the computer. And that the game (my life, all of existence) would be forever broken and glitchy.

[Member]

1 minute ago, Nichts said:

I think the scariest thing was how irreversible it felt. If you use the analogy of a video game: It felt like I somehow glitched my way out of that video game called life, and then accidentally broke the computer. And that the game (my life, all of existence) would be forever broken and glitchy.

Yep, sounds scary enough. I would recommend you to meditate, eat healthy, sleep well, avoid stress and overthinking months before taking it again. It doesn't sound like a good idea to use other drugs (including alcohol) in the meantime. If you can't control your thoughts or emotions, then most likely you are not prepared for it.

[Nak Khid]

2 hours ago, electroBeam said:

Correction: you fixed something and now can never go back to insane.

so  any random psychedelic permanently improves your mental health?

[Flyboy]

4 hours ago, Nichts said:

Hey guys and girls,

For about the last 6 months, I'm having problems with going deep when taking DMT. It all started when I had my first (and til now only) breakthrough experience 6 months ago. I was overwhelmed by it and had a strong ego backlash: Thinking that I kind of "broke" something in my psyche and being scared that I would never be able to return back to "normal". Since then, every time I'm smoking DMT, I have this resistance that keeps me from going deep. Whereas before my breakthrough I could just relax into the experience and let it take me where it wanted me to go, now always fears come up and I try to cling to my "normal state". I would so love to have this ease again that I had before my breakthrough, just being able to relax and go deep.

Has anybody gone through something similar and has any tips for dealing with this resistance?

I had an incredibly scary DMT experience myself, where it felt like "game over" and that the simulation of life would not continue.  My ego was pulverized unwillingly, and it felt like dying.  After much reading and reflection, I now realize that this could have been a beautiful experience if I'd been ready for it and been able to let go, but at that point I certainly was NOT.

I still have some latent fear from that experience, BUT I have found a couple things have really helped:

  1. Meditate before the experience.  Really get into the moment and present and at peace first.

  2. Use an MAOI!  This made a tremendous difference.  30mg sublingual Harmine will transform the experience into something crystalline and smooth and beautiful.  I had no fear after the first hit, and took 3 more as I floated up and down in a beautiful state of consciousness.  You can get Harmine legally from online vendors, so there's no reason not to try this.

There is so much to explore and learn with this molecule.  Don't give up.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Flyboy

[Member]

4 hours ago, Dand said:

These shadow entities made themselves present and start flying into my body, looking back they were benevolent but because I was resisting so much I saw them as demons and tried everything to stop them possessing me. More and more shadows came and entered my body. I saw strange alien beings showing themselves off like a talent show but it was more sinister. They were flexing how much power they had compared to me, how weak I was,

Interesting. Have you actually seen the shadows or you only perceived them with your minds eye? Something similar happened to me while I was half awake but it was only this perception that they were dark and attacked me from all the directions like some wild animals. Soon after, I also started feeling an alien presence. I find it fascinating that many visions are common... not only when taking DMT but in cases of sleep paralysis too.

[cxsxlx]

On my 2nd breakthrough, I became very scared. I realized all the mistakes I had done over the course of this life. For about the next 10 sessions, it felt like a knot was in my stomach. Incredibly (psychologically) painful. I was scared of it every time. Then, the session that broke through all of that. Before hitting my pipe, I said to myself “at least have the fucking bravery to face this shit head-on, man” and I went in feeling genuinely brave, while knowing I could be destroyed. I come in with that mantra of bravery every time now. No problems since then. Some uncomfortable realizations, sure, but I face each and every one of them bravely. 

[Leo Gura]

Fear vs Love is what all this work boils down to. Nothing surprising here.

The more Love you will be shown the more fear you'll have to face.

[billiesimon]

On 12/6/2020 at 6:05 PM, Flyboy said:

  2. Use an MAOI!  This made a tremendous difference.  30mg sublingual Harmine will transform the experience into something crystalline and smooth and beautiful.  I had no fear after the first hit, and took 3 more as I floated up and down in a beautiful state of consciousness.  You can get Harmine legally from online vendors, so there's no reason not to try this.

There is so much to explore and learn with this molecule.  Don't give up.

I have no experience with DMT but I'm interested.

Can you get a huge effect out of a small dose of DMT by using a huge dose of MAOI?

[SaWaSaurus]

On 6/12/2020 at 7:24 AM, Nichts said:

I think the scariest thing was how irreversible it felt. If you use the analogy of a video game: It felt like I somehow glitched my way out of that video game called life, and then accidentally broke the computer. And that the game (my life, all of existence) would be forever broken and glitchy.

Your DMT experience almost exactly mirrors my own... I even use the video game analogy. The way I described it, I was in the lobby of a video game called life. There were no characters, no environment, no setting.

I also felt the 'feeling' (idk if it was fear exactly) of seeing something which cannot be unseen or undone. It felt like the game was permanently over.

The final takeaway, and the most profound for myself, was the dissolved separation between inner and outer world. The outer world became fluid like mind. I think this is what PKD might have meant when he said, "Matter is plastic in the face of mind".

Like you I'm also afraid of taking DMT again, so I don't have much experiential advice to give. Though I was also terrified when I decided to smoke DMT in the trip I just described. Took me like 30 minutes of sitting silently with my fear before finally smoking it.

[Flyboy]

5 hours ago, billiesimon said:

I have no experience with DMT but I'm interested.

Can you get a huge effect out of a small dose of DMT by using a huge dose of MAOI?

No, not a huge effect, though the MAOI has its own effects at higher dosages.

However, it slows the speed of DMT down a lot, so it is not only less scary, it also lasts quite a bit longer.  You probably want both of these things!

[Carl-Richard]

On 13.6.2020 at 4:15 AM, Leo Gura said:

Fear vs Love is what all this work boils down to. Nothing surprising here.

The more Love you will be shown the more fear you'll have to face.

It's so simple, but it's also so hard

[Chakra Lion]

On 6/12/2020 at 5:24 AM, Nichts said:

Has anybody gone through something similar and has any tips for dealing with this resistance?

This one time at band camp. I instantly awoke into this reality where I was standing in the center of this enclosed ring, and this dark and overwhelming being came down and because of my negative mindset before entering the trip, I just panicked and wanted to get out of it immediately.These loud alarms were going off in my head, and the whole visual perception was breathing in and out in a frantic way. Like a moment in Hell. It took me a second to get out of the trip, but when I did, my dog was in front of me with her third eye staring at me. I just bend over and hid my face in her fur. My heart was racing, and when I heard my new roommates footsteps outside my door, I wondered if I yelled or what had happened. It was all okay in the end. 

Since then, I never use for entertainment or pleasure. It is a powerful tool that will change you every time. It needs to be respected, and taken with love. Also dosage is important. Start with 1 hit. Give it a moment, and feel yourself. If it wants you to take more, it will let you know. Trust. You'd be surprised by how heavy it can get with just one small hit that is taken with great care and held in for as long as feels comfortable. 

[Leo Gura]

With any vaped substance you gotta go extra easy on the dose. It's easy to take a big hit and get in over your head.

Baby doses. Since vaping is so fast, it's easy to redose if you undershoot. Impossible to undo if you overshoot.

[Flyboy]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

With any vaped substance you gotta go extra easy on the dose. It's easy to take a big hit and get in over your head.

Baby doses. Since vaping is so fast, it's easy to redose if you undershoot. Impossible to undo if you overshoot.

I would also add that DMT has a narrow "window of vaporization", meaning the heat difference required to vape vs burn (and therefore inert) DMT is quite small.  This can result in "failure to launch" on even a very normal dosage.  This can be dangerous because you might try to smoke 50mg, have almost nothing happen, and then try 75mg.  If you nail the vaping of the 75mg, you will experience something you Do Not Want To Experience.  30mg is a breakthrough dose if vaped perfectly.

This also applies to cleaning your pipe.  If your pipe has DMT leftover from a previous hit, you can easily accidentally over-do the dosage on a follow-up hit.

Bottom line, go slow, be patient, try it with an MAOI, and respect the immense power of this molecule.

[Chakra Lion]

some burned copper scrubber stuffed into small brass pipe pieces... aka 'the machine'