Abolishing police

[intotheblack]

Just came across 2 articles that give some explanation as to what it reallly means to ‘abolish police’ . 
 

https://www.mpd150.com/what-are-we-talking-about-when-we-talk-about-a-police-free-future/

https://www.mpd150.com/faq/ 

Fight crime with force and control or fight crime with love? 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

When a mass shooting is happening, the "love" that must be used in that case is to shoot the shooter in the head.

Be careful not to limit your notion "love" here. Love must be proportional to the situation. If you have a brutal situation, it will require brutal action to suppress.

One of the common delusions of stage Green is thinking that they can fix stage Red criminals with some hippie love intervention -- which of course the stage Red criminal will just exploit.

You can fight mild crime with "love", but serious crime also requires force.

Force is often used precisely because all other options have failed to work and patience has run thin.

[intotheblack]

@Leo Gura yeah I understand that.  But this would be a long term process, gradually defunding police and putting resources into other communities and focused on prevention.  There would still be police for violent cases such as what you mentioned above.  In most cases the police don’t help and people will avoid calling them.  The long term goal would be more community support groups and violence prevention.  
It wouldn’t just be a case of suddenly removing all police, It would be step by step over many years and city by city etc. 

[intotheblack]

The police would be more prestigious.  Not allowing just anyone to be a cop.  There would be strict training and vetting, who knows maybe even compassion testing lol. 

[Epikur]

Yes we are hoping for a better world. A lot has to be done. But in the meanwhile there can be some friction.
 

 

[Leo Gura]

"Defunding the police" is a terrible slogan.

Don't call it that.

[Onemanwolfpac]

Parts of America are turning into Detroit or worse. Defund police is a highly uneducated slogan. People want Haiti to be America. 

[Forestluv]

32 minutes ago, Onemanwolfpac said:

Parts of America are turning into Detroit or worse. 

I live outside Detroit and it doesn’t seem like you have an understanding of Detroit. How many times have you actually been to Detroit? How much time have you spent with people who actually live in Detroit? How many Detroit communities have you immersed yourself in? . . .

There are many wonderful aspects within Detroit communities that we can learn from to create healthier communities. 

Notice how the mind creates myopic realities. 

[intotheblack]

@Onemanwolfpac yes I apologise I didn't word it right.  I am still educating myself/exploring the topic.  

being bombarded with so much information over the last weeks, its a lot to process!

Edited June 14, 2020 by intotheblack

[Haumea2018]

On 6/12/2020 at 2:16 AM, Leo Gura said:

One of the common delusions of stage Green is thinking that they can fix stage Red criminals with some hippie love intervention -- which of course the stage Red criminal will just exploit.

This is absolutely right -- Red hasn't even learned the discipline of Blue, let alone the much more abstract values of Orange and Green.

This is why systemic Yellow will soon replace Green as the leading edge.  It recognizes that to progress Red needs Blue (and Blue needs Orange), and doesn't attempt to deconstruct either, as that has some very undesirable consequences.

[Epikur]

5 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

I live outside Detroit and it doesn’t seem like you have an understanding of Detroit. How many times have you actually been to Detroit? How much time have you spent with people who actually live in Detroit? How many Detroit communities have you immersed yourself in? . . .

There are many wonderful aspects within Detroit communities that we can learn from to create healthier communities. 

Notice how the mind creates myopic realities. 

I think some numbers may give a fuller picture:
 

Quote

As of 2018, Detroit had the third highest murder rate among major cities in the United States after St. Louis and Baltimore and the 42nd highest murder rate in the world.[1][2] 

In recent years some neighborhoods in the downtown area of Detroit have seen a significant decline in crime while the crime rate remains very high in most of the city and has a significant impact on daily life.[7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Detroit

[Forestluv]

47 minutes ago, Epikur said:

I think some numbers may give a fuller picture:

WHOOSH!!! You totally missed my point.

And I’ll ask you the same question. How many times have you actually visited Detroit? How many Detroiters have you actually met? How many Detroit communities have you immersed yourself within?

I find it quite ironic that you call your view a “fuller picture”. If you would like to gain a “fuller picture” of Detroit, please come visit. I’m happy to show you around and I think you would be quite surprised of what you discover.

When I first moved to Michigan, I had the same view as you. I avoided Detroit for years. Then I actually went there and was surprised by what I found. Detroit is now one of my favorite cities in the U.S. 

[Epikur]

15 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

WHOOSH!!! You totally missed my point.

And I’ll ask you the same question. How many times have you actually visited Detroit? How many Detroiters have you actually met? How many Detroit communities have you immersed yourself within?

And you call your view a “fuller picture” ? How ironic. . . If you would like to gain a “fuller picture” of Detroit, please come visit. I’m happy to show you around and I think you would be quite surprised of what you discover.

When I first moved to Michigan, I had the same view as you. I avoided Detroit for years. Then I actually went there and was surprised by what I found. Detroit is now one of my favorite cities in the U.S. 

I know what you mean but still numbers count. Imagine a fascist telling you how awful london is. Would you believe him or would you say that he is not to be trusted because he is obviously biased. So one has to make his own opinions with limited data. That is life. 

I watched many videos about detroit and read quite a bit articles. I didn't even give you my opinion I just copied what is there in Wikipedia.

I am shure there a wonderful places in or around detroit but that doesn't mean the numbers are incorrect. 



 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Epikur

[Forestluv]

16 minutes ago, Epikur said:

I watched many videos about detroit and read quite a bit articles. 

The original comment I responded to was: “Parts of America are turning into Detroit or worse.”

This is a derogatory generalized comment about the city of Detroit. It is a myopic view. It is also accurate to say that America would be better if America turn more like Detroit.

You claim to know a lot about Detroit from all the videos and articles you have read. So please tell me, in what ways would American be better if they turned more like Detroit?

You wouldn’t understand this because you don’t know what Detroit is actually like. As I said, if you would like to learn about what Detroit is actually like, I invite you to visit. I’d be happy to show you around. 

[Leo Gura]

@Serotoninluv I learned everything I need to know about Detroit from watching Robocop

 

[Forestluv]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Serotoninluv I learned everything I need to know about Detroit from watching Robocop

 

Lol. That’s what I’m talking about.

Yet I must admit I do it myself. I’m sure have I distorted views of many foreign cities based on a few videos I saw.

[Epikur]

18 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

The original comment I responded to was: “Parts of America are turning into Detroit or worse.”

This is a derogatory generalized comment about the city of Detroit. It is a myopic view. It is also accurate to say that America would be better if America turn more like Detroit.

You claim to know a lot about Detroit from all the videos and articles you have read. So please tell me, in what ways would American be better if they turned more like Detroit?

You wouldn’t understand this because you don’t know what Detroit is actually like. As I said, if you would like to learn about what Detroit is actually like, I invite you to visit. I’d be happy to show you around. 

Thanks for the invitation. I don't think I will make it to the US in this life. I can only work with the limited information I have. I try to take both sides into consideration. 

https://www.bridgemi.com/detroit-journalism-cooperative/detroit-doing-better-how-much-thats-where-experts-disagree

https://www.purpose.jobs/blog/9-reasons-to-live-and-work-in-detroit-michigan

 

[Epikur]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Serotoninluv I learned everything I need to know about Detroit from watching Robocop

 

There is not such a thing like bad advertising some say though I would not agree. Actually this video is extremely entertaining. So different folks prefer different things. Some want to experience the mad max life style I guess.

This video blows my mind my inner animal likes the action.

[Forestluv]

3 hours ago, Epikur said:

Thanks for the invitation. I don't think I will make it to the US in this life. I can only work with the limited information I have. I try to take both sides into consideration. 

Perhaps I can tell you a few things. The people of Detroit have gone through a lot of turmoil over the last several decades. I find them to be “weathered” and some of the nicest, down-to-earth people I’ve met in the region. I moved here from the west coast of the U.S. Out there I felt so comfortable just being with people. I could go to a community concert and easily strike up conversations with random people - and I’m super introverted. Detroit is the only place in the region I can do that. There is a sense of communal caring I sense there and I think part of the reason is the hardships that have shaped them.

A few things that I think reflect some of the awesomeness in Detroit. As buildings decayed around them, many local communities came together and created community gardens. How awesome is that? Surrounded by decay, they came together and starting growing nutritious food together as a shared community. 

Due to economic collapse, rental prices are so low that poor artists can afford to have their own studio downtown. This creates an organic artsy vibe that is unique.

Detroit has some of the greatest music history, musicians and music appreciation I’ve seen. The Detroit electronic festival was all grassroots. Community members coming together to create a free music festival for the community. The talent was sooo good that it has expanded to an internationally-acclaimed music festival. I went a few years and was blown away. . . You had mentioned crime statistics, so this may seem surprising. This was the most diverse and safest music festival I’ve ever been to. And there were no police officers. There were just designated community people checking tickets and encouraging everyone to be chill. There were sooo many different types of people. All sorts of races, sexual orientations, ages, poor and rich, muscle builders, hippies, dudes covered with tattoos and on and on. And everyone was totally cool with everyone else just being themselves. It was filled with love and one of the greatest experiences I’ve had.

[Epikur]

38 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Perhaps I can tell you a few things. The people of Detroit have gone through a lot of turmoil over the last several decades. I find them to be “weathered” and some of the nicest, down-to-earth people I’ve met in the region. I moved here from the west coast of the U.S. Out there I felt so comfortable just being with people. I could go to a community concert and easily strike up conversations with random people - and I’m super introverted. Detroit is the only place in the region I can do that. There is a sense of communal caring I sense there and I think part of the reason is the hardships that have shaped them.

A few things that I think reflect some of the awesomeness in Detroit. As buildings decayed around them, many local communities came together and created community gardens. How awesome is that? Surrounded by decay, they came together and starting growing nutritious food together as a shared community. 

Due to economic collapse, rental prices are so low that poor artists can afford to have their own studio downtown. This creates an organic artsy vibe that is unique.

Detroit has some of the greatest music history, musicians and music appreciation I’ve seen. The Detroit electronic festival was all grassroots. Community members coming together to create a free music festival for the community. The talent was sooo good that it has expanded to an internationally-acclaimed music festival. I went a few years and was blown away. . . You had mentioned crime statistics, so this may seem surprising. This was the most diverse and safest music festival I’ve ever been to. And there were no police officers. There were just designated community people checking tickets and encouraging everyone to be chill. There were sooo many different types of people. All sorts of races, sexual orientations, ages, poor and rich, muscle builders, hippies, dudes covered with tattoos and on and on. And everyone was totally cool with everyone else just being themselves. It was filled with love and one of the greatest experiences I’ve had.

I really liked what you a writing. I read many articles who described basically what you wrote. Still the numbers have to come from somewhere. 

Anyway I wish the best for Detroit. I had a conversation with a guy who said that electronic musik came from Detroit. I thought it's Berlin. Probably both are correct. House music is my limit. With ecstasy pills I may can handle it though I never tried it. 

I am living in the philippines. It is a matter of perception some say it's dangerous some say it's not. To be honest for my comfort level it's too dangerous but if you can find a nice then it may be worth it. So bottom line. People have different perceptions I guess. 

https://www.quora.com/Is-Detroit-Michigan-a-dangerous-place-to-live