2 questions

[Member]

10 hours ago, traveler said:

hallelujah! And the show must go on!

There is no show without the magician ?

8 hours ago, Kelpie said:

As for your argument that we create our reality, I again argue that it is much more likely we subjectively perceive an objective reality, because if all of existence was indeed created by my consciousness, it should be completely random, rather than an orderly experience. 

 

I will just quote Sean Carroll who is a well-respected physicist specializing in quantum mechanics:

Quote

These days we know that quantum mechanics provides a more accurate view of the world. According to quantum theory, the world isn't actually made of "objects" with "locations" in three-dimensional "space." Those are simply convenient ways of talking about features of an abstract and more fundamental description of the universe: the wave function. It evolves in a mathematical realm with more than 10^(10^100) dimensions. That's an absurdly large number, which should just make you think "Wow, that's a lot of dimensions."

[....]

Bottom line: Physics has a long way to go before we understand how space emerges from quantum mechanics, but we shouldn't be surprised that the fundamental nature of stuff is something very different from what we're used to.

[source]

Get what you want from it. But objective reality is far from the truth.

Edited June 13, 2020 by Member

[traveler]

57 minutes ago, Member said:

There is no show without the magician ?

The show and the magician is one.

[Member]

Just now, traveler said:

The show and the magician is one.

Yep. That's why "we" all "are God" is nonsense. There is only one God and that is You.

[Member]

This is God

Not a static boring cube where all there is aka block universe, objective reality, many worlds etc etc

 

[WaveInTheOcean]

On 10.6.2020 at 10:57 PM, Kelpie said:

1- For those of you who believe we are all God generating the universe-  How can you be sure that we don't live in an objective reality that simply produced beings with consciousness who CANNOT DISTINGUISH whether we live in an objective reality or not, INSTEAD OF us simply being god generating reality? And when I use the term objective reality, I mean an objective reality that is beyond any sort of comprehension at all. Because any perception is by definition, biased and subjective. Objective reality can never be known by consciousness.

 

2- Whether there is an objective reality or whether consciousness is all that exists, why do we perceive an orderly world instead of PURE randomness?   

1. Both perspectives are partly true, partly untrue. To get the full truth --- which is, as you say, incomprehensible (for the rational mind, not for YOU per say) --- you need to let go of all perspectives (which is the same as accepting all perspectives).

Yes. You are God generating the entire Universe. You = Me = God = Universe = Love = Consciousness

Yes. "Objective Reality" is beyond any sort of comprehension. Reality is Absolute Infinity.

Ultimately, subjective is equal to objective. No difference. The difference is non-dualistic in nature, like all differences are. You cannot have subjective without objective, and vice versa. Just like you can't have:
good without evil;
love without hate;
tails without heads;
buying without selling;
front without back;
life without death;
environment without conscious beings.
etc.
And vice versa.

It is the mark of a wise mind to be able to entertain two opposing thoughts without accepting/rejecting either of them.
The Whole is always greater than the sum of its parts.

2. 

- There IS an Objective Incomprehensible Reality beyond your limited, biased, myopic, selfish consciousnesss with its associated knowing, understanding, logic and rational thinking.

Simultaneously, and just as true:

- Consciousness is all that exists.

Two perspectives on the same Truth, which you can't grasp with language or thinking, but only with direct experience. 

It's like if you're born blind, i.e. you have never seen colours your whole life, then you may ask:

"Hey, can you two, my good dear friends, please tell me what the colour 'blue' is like?"

Bob answers: "It is cold."
Alice answers: "It is hot".

No matter what Bob and Alice tells you about the colour blue (including all the physics and biology of photons, wavelengths, brain-chemistry etc.), you will never actual directly experience the colour blue.

To experience the colour blue, you must... experience it. Ta-daah.
That's direct experience. That's REAL understanding. REAL knowing. You see?

"...why do we perceive an orderly world instead of PURE randomness?"

Well. Like all other dualities, order vs. randomness is also fundamentally one and the same thing:
< Love - Consciousness - THE GODHEAD >

But to answer more relatively: You perceive some order, because everything is God's Intelligent Love being manifested. Everything.
You are God.

Edited June 13, 2020 by WaveInTheOcean

[Nahm]

12 hours ago, Kelpie said:

@Nahm but I don't think I'm suffering. I recently discovered that simply going out and enjoying nature more puts my mind at peace.

That’s lovely. I’m not saying don’t do that, but if you want you can notice you’re doing that as an answer or remedy for the very suffering you’re denying. That would require self honestly in seeing that you are suffering, that there is ‘that which being in nature’ is the solution to. In truth there is no such thing as not your true nature. 

12 hours ago, Kelpie said:

It's human society and all man-made creations, artificial, meaningless and ugly, that has been the root of all my suffering.

‘That’ is  you. You’re believing you’re the one who goes out into nature and puts his / her mind at ease, the individual separate human self, and all of ‘that’ is “this other thing”. There is a stage where one fools oneself in such manors, and there is a stage where one inspects the actuality of suffering, and of “things” & “that”. The suffering is attachment to thoughts, while you blame the state of the world not realizing your illusion, by not inspecting the nature of thoughts. Because you believe those things exist, you believe the suffering is at the fault of those things. This is a stage of avoidance of inspection of the truth.  

12 hours ago, Kelpie said:

And again, how can you prove that we are all one, and not just individual consciousnesses believing we are all one?

Try to notice the deep seated belief that someone else could, should or would prove to you that we are all one. See the shortcoming in that logic. If “we are all one”, you are that one, and thus there is no one else which could prove this to you. Inspect or don’t, always up to you because you are creating your reality. 

12 hours ago, Kelpie said:

If the temperature of the Earth's atmosphere rose by 50 degrees, I don't think suffering would be an option no matter what I believed or could create with my mind :-). 

Sure, but that’s not actual. It’s awareness completely duped by the “if” of the finite mind. The actuality is the sun’s temperature is perfect, thanks to you. But you have no idea of this at all, which is in some ways very funny. 

12 hours ago, Kelpie said:

As for your argument that we create our reality, I again argue that it is much more likely we subjectively perceive an objective reality, because if all of existence was indeed created by my consciousness, it should be completely random, rather than an orderly experience. 

There’s no argument, you misunderstand, assume & project that there is someone else present here arguing with a you. That’s a belief, which you are creating as you go, without inspecting and realizing you are. You are creating “this”. Not a “my consciousness”. There’s no such thing as consciousness. 

See if you can notice the opposite perspective is equally true, by noticing the defense of an idea / concept, which isn’t a thing to begin with, and thus can’t even actually be defended. Because it’s not actually a thing, it can not be random or orderly. Try to notice the “stuckness”. Random and orderly are thoughts. One can not think perception, any more than one can perceive thought. 

[Adamq8]

On 6/13/2020 at 2:30 PM, Nahm said:

That’s lovely. I’m not saying don’t do that, but if you want you can notice you’re doing that as an answer or remedy for the very suffering you’re denying. That would require self honestly in seeing that you are suffering, that there is ‘that which being in nature’ is the solution to. In truth there is no such thing as not your true nature. 

‘That’ is  you. You’re believing you’re the one who goes out into nature and puts his / her mind at ease, the individual separate human self, and all of ‘that’ is “this other thing”. There is a stage where one fools oneself in such manors, and there is a stage where one inspects the actuality of suffering, and of “things” & “that”. The suffering is attachment to thoughts, while you blame the state of the world not realizing your illusion, by not inspecting the nature of thoughts. Because you believe those things exist, you believe the suffering is at the fault of those things. This is a stage of avoidance of inspection of the truth.  

Try to notice the deep seated belief that someone else could, should or would prove to you that we are all one. See the shortcoming in that logic. If “we are all one”, you are that one, and thus there is no one else which could prove this to you. Inspect or don’t, always up to you because you are creating your reality. 

Sure, but that’s not actual. It’s awareness completely duped by the “if” of the finite mind. The actuality is the sun’s temperature is perfect, thanks to you. But you have no idea of this at all, which is in some ways very funny. 

There’s no argument, you misunderstand, assume & project that there is someone else present here arguing with a you. That’s a belief, which you are creating as you go, without inspecting and realizing you are. You are creating “this”. Not a “my consciousness”. There’s no such thing as consciousness. 

See if you can notice the opposite perspective is equally true, by noticing the defense of an idea / concept, which isn’t a thing to begin with, and thus can’t even actually be defended. Because it’s not actually a thing, it can not be random or orderly. Try to notice the “stuckness”. Random and orderly are thoughts. One can not think perception, any more than one can perceive thought. 

Really beatiful explanation ?