Will Trump be re-elected?

[Forestluv]

57 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

@Serotoninluv  So, if I am to understand what you are saying, is that only voting members should be encompassed?  

At the population level, I think it’s best that each person is allowed 1 vote and each person that votes has their vote counted once. However, disenfranchisement is a major threat to this fundamental tenant of society. Enfranchisement and 1 person / 1 vote go hand-in-hand. 

I also think that there are some legitimate points about disproportional voting power for the health of a country or subpopulation. For example, some may argue that rural farmers would be neglected without disproportionate voting power. I can see the value in that, yet it does not override the fundamental tenant that each person gets one vote. And I am not “liberal biased”. Liberals may argue that marginalized and oppressed people should be given extra voting power. I can see the value in that, yet it doesn’t over-ride the fundamental tenant of democracy for me. 

As a test of bias: How would you feel if every black person got to vote 3 times? That dynamic is now occurring in the current EV system. 

 

[Consept]

6 hours ago, Dutch guy said:

@Keyhole #statisticsmatter see the last column.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZ6CIlgXgAEoz4T?format=jpg&name=small

You keep switching stuff, youre claiming black on black crime is the real issue, what im saying is white on crime is pretty much just as bad 

[Forestluv]

38 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I'm racist, because I believe all lives matter, not just black lives.

I’m amazed about how much personal identity, attachment and survival clouds such a basic principal.

One analogy I like is “All Bones Matter”. All the bones in my body matter and it’s best to have a good diet and exercise to keep all my bones healthy. Yet if I break my femur bone, extra attention needs to go to my femur bone. There needs to be attention toward “My femur bone matters”. I would need to get an extra of my femur bone. I might need surgery and physical therapy to help my femur bone heal. 

It would be silly for my scapula bone to get upset when I acknowledge that “My Femur Bone Matters”. It would be silly for my scapula bone to get upset and scream “No, All Bones matter!!”. . . .This would be a highly contracted self-centered view of my scapula bone. It would be identified and attached to it’s scapula-ness and not be able to access a higher consciousness of all the bones in the organism. 

[Carl-Richard]

@Dutch guy But do you think the protesters have valid concerns at all?

[Forestluv]

Just now, Dutch guy said:

Nope your wrong. Cops killing whites is just as bad.

WHOOOOSH!!!!

[Consept]

3 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

WHOOOOSH!!!!

I like when hes like 'nope', i glanced over your well reasoned reply but it doesnt match with my pre-conceived anchored beliefs so, NOPE!

[Carl-Richard]

@Serotoninluv 
Patient: "Hey doctor, my arm is broken!"
Doctor: "All bones matter!"
*slams the door*

[Carl-Richard]

@Dutch guy You could be right a hundred times over, but it still wouldn't explain why millions of people took to the streets to protest against racial discrimination. Why do you think the protests are happening?

[Forestluv]

As an expansion of the analogy to better fit the situation in the U.S.

Image that my entire skeleton system isn’t doing to well. It’s in the early stages of osteoporosis. A bone in my arm is bruised and a bone in my leg is broken. A holistic approach would be that, overall I need some skeletal system changes. I need to improve my diet to help the entire system. I start taking calcium and glucosamine-chondroitin supplements. As well, when I do the inventory my bruised arm bone needs some attention, perhaps a massage and a bandage to protect it. My broken leg bone needs more attention. It will need a cast to protect it for a while. . . . 

To go an even deeper level: Imagine there were cells in my bruised arm bone dying and cells within my broken leg bone dying. We could say “All Cells Matter”. We could say that the death of each cell in my bruised arm bone is just as bad as the death of each cell in my broken leg bone. From a cellular perspective, this is correct. Yet when we go to the higher organismal level of the entire skeletal system, attention needs to go to both arm and leg bones, yet more attention needs to go to the broken leg bone than the bruised arm bone. 

[Forestluv]

14 minutes ago, Dutch guy said:

The analogy doesnt work that well. It's more like taking some alternative medicine which is poisonous and doesn't heal. And than that medicine is taken for decades and decades. Even longer. Slavery is like enormous long ago. And still needs so called healing. Ridiculous of-course. Doesn't heal, only hurts. In the meanwhile the patient is getting worse and worse. If he didn't take the substance and focused on the real problem the patient could have healed.

Your block is with “so called healing. Ridiculous of-course”. With that filter block in place, you will not understand my analogies. I could add in a component about how previous bone trauma still affects the person decades later, yet you wont get it due to your “so called healing” filter block. 

Notice how the block is maintained. It’s not just “so-called healing”. It’s so-called healing of course. That “of course” is an added protection so that you don’t look under the hood. “Nothing to see here, of course. . . “. It re-enforces the block to which the mind does not want to explore. 

As well, I could give you examples of how structural racism introduced a hundred years into my institution where I work, yet you will have a “so called healing” filter block that won’t allow you to see it.  

@Carl-Richard Nice one. ? 

[Consept]

2 minutes ago, Dutch guy said:

The analogy doesnt work that well. It's more like taking some alternative medicine which is poisonous and doesn't heal. And than that medicine is taken for decades and decades. Even longer. Slavery is like enormous long ago. And still needs so called healing. Ridiculous of-course. Doesn't heal, only hurts. In the meanwhile the patient is getting worse and worse.

Let me ask you this, you say black people in americas issue is a cultural one ie they are in poverty and commit more crimes because of their culture. You also say slavery was a long time ago and should be forgotten (ill brush past everything thats happened since slavery).

The culture DID NOT come from Africa which is where the slaves were taken from, if their culture is negative, which in some ways it is but not really more than any other group in poverty, they did not choose for it to be like that, they were not allowed to read so it became a part of their culture for example. Every bit of African-American culture comes from their treatment during and since slavery, their original culture was completely corrupted by the slave trade. So how can you blame them for a culture that was imposed on them to the point where they were not allowed to keep their own culture?

[Danioover9000]

@Dutch guy You are tickling my funny bone. @Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

@Dutch guy Even if we grant that hypothesis, do you think it is ALL based on fiction or is there some kernel of truth in their concerns? Kinda like how traditional religion is based on God but gets a distorted image of it.

[LaucherJunge]

At least we've got someone who is brave enough to speak out these truths. It's a very good point that it literally became a religion.
That's what I'm talking about all the time in other threads when I'm saying left as it is presented in the media is not really left, they are literally tricking you into thinking that.

Edited June 8, 2020 by LaucherJunge

[Carl-Richard]

2 minutes ago, Dutch guy said:

@Carl-Richard probably the education system needs fixing. It is said that the system is not equal by my media. My media is biased in the netherlands so I don't know if I can trust it. But equal opportunity in education should be taken care of.

The rest is more like if you believe it , it becomes true. If you believe because of slavery you now are mistreated, you'd probably get angry and it will feel very real. My country got invaded by the germans in world war two. I didn't live then so I don't care. I even tell the Germans , let go of your feelings of guilt. It's to long ago. Slavery was like much much much longer ago.

If you want culture wars the way to make them is keep blaming each other for things long ago when you didn't even live.

 

[Consept]

10 minutes ago, Dutch guy said:

@Carl-Richard @Serotoninluv@Consept probably the education system needs fixing. It is said that the system is not equal by my media. My media is biased in the netherlands so I don't know if I can trust it. But equal opportunity in education should be taken care of.

The rest is more like if you believe it , it becomes true. If you believe because of slavery you now are mistreated, you'd probably get angry and it will feel very real. My country got invaded by the germans in world war two. I didn't live then so I don't care. I even tell the Germans , let go of your feelings of guilt. It's to long ago. Slavery was like much much much longer ago. The poor germans are because of their guilt taking in way to much immigrants. Creating problems for generations.

If you want culture wars the way to make them is keep blaming each other for things long ago when you didn't even live.

Answer my question though, you say why black people are failing is because of negative culture, negative culture was directly created when they were taken from Africa, no remnants of African culture exist in current culture that was specifically beaten out of them including language, whose fault is it that they have this negative culture?

[SerpaeTetra]

6 minutes ago, Dutch guy said:

@Carl-Richard probably the education system needs fixing. It is said that the system is not equal by my media. My media is biased in the netherlands so I don't know if I can trust it. But equal opportunity in education should be taken care of.

The rest is more like if you believe it , it becomes true. If you believe because of slavery you now are mistreated, you'd probably get angry and it will feel very real. My country got invaded by the germans in world war two. I didn't live then so I don't care. I even tell the Germans , let go of your feelings of guilt. It's to long ago. Slavery was like much much much longer ago. The poor germans are because of their guilt taking in way to much immigrants. Creating problems for generations.

If you want culture wars the way to make them is keep blaming each other for things long ago when you didn't even live.

So you are admitting you really don't know about the US education system.  Thats very understandable since you live on the other side of the world.  Yet, when people who have lived here in the US for decades admit they have seen and have direct experience with systematic racism in our country since they were children, you just gaslight them and say their views are distorted.  Kind of amazing to me.  I'm not talking about the Netherlands right now, as I have no idea what its like over there.

[Consept]

1 minute ago, Dutch guy said:

I thought blacks live a long time in America. Than take over the successful elements of that culture. They shouldn't be called afro-americans, they have nothing to do with that anymore. They are americans.

You a cherry picking my question but cutting the quote - YOU SAY why black people are failing is because of negative culture, negative culture was directly created when they were taken from Africa, no remnants of African culture exist in current culture that was specifically beaten out of them including language, whose fault is it that they have this negative culture?

[Consept]

1 minute ago, Dutch guy said:

@Consept if they now have negative culture than its not anymore the fault of others. To long ago.

Do you know when the civil rights bill was signed?

 

[Consept]

3 minutes ago, Dutch guy said:

@Consept if they now have negative culture than its not anymore the fault of others. To long ago.

Do you also realise they built up thriving communities in Tulsa, OKC which were bombed by white people, do you know all their black leaders were killed? Would you not say these had an affect or were these their fault as well?