Belief or Truth

[James123]

@SoonHei lol  if you take personal, i am happening now in the moment, right in front of me. Nothing much. I like to be nothing in the body, everything is the smoother just watching a movie  lol. It is better not to think. Rest be fun  i just need ?  here. 

Edited June 6, 2020 by James123

[SoonHei]

@James123 oh, ok. So you and I are saying the same thing. Just in different ways. I meant exactly what you said above. More than one way of saying it

 

Being nothing in the body

Or being in the body knowing you're playing a video game ?

 

 

[Forestluv]

28 minutes ago, JayG84 said:

Right. I get that.

I am pointing to a “Getting” prior to “getting”. 

1 hour ago, JayG84 said:

But I still can't help but wonder if my idea of Absolute Oneness is still a belief that I hold. I mean it "feels" true. But maybe my mind is just believing that it's true. just like cult members beleive their ideology. Except this ideology is the absence of all ideology. How do I know??

I know I have to Awaken to find out. But even if I see the truth in a psychedelic trip or self-inquiry session. How do I know it's not "my brain" playing tricks on me. Maybe all anti-materialism stuff is just as bad as Christians believing that Atheists don't know the truth.

What is it about the Awakening experience that makes you Absolutely sure it's not something that you are conceptualizing on a level you are not aware of? Like someone saying "OOOhhh...this planet is just floating in Space-Time! This must be the Truth!"

I know there must be a truth out there, and that all falsehoods lead there. But could there not be a "Truth" beyond what you guys experienced? An even deeper insight? What makes it feel more TRUE than any other TRUTH?

You look in limbo between knowing and Knowing as you grasp for knowing to get a sense of grounding.

Rather than trying to know Knowing, allow Knowing to realize and Know Itself.  Imagine looking in a mirror for the first time and realizing that you are looking at yourself. Imagine Remembering what you have forgotten. . . 

[James123]

@SoonHei  yep   I dont want to be here as a main character of video game, because my favorite is resident evil. Lol  Love is everywhere right?  

Edited June 6, 2020 by James123

[Leo Gura]

57 minutes ago, JayG84 said:

@Leo Gura But how does absoluteness feel different from any other thing that seems final.

You can't possibly understand until you realize the Absolute.

It is what it is.

[JayG84]

2 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

You look like in limbo between knowing and Knowing. 

Rather than try to know Knowing, try to allow Knowing to realize and Know Itself.  Imagine looking in a mirror for the first time and realizing that you are looking at yourself. 

Oooo. That's the stuff right there. Great answer. Thanks. 

Can I trust the fact that I "know" intuitively what everyone is talkng about when they speak of Infinity/Oneness/Love/God/Consciousness? Because, even though I'm still questioning it, I'm drawn to it. I've seen that dissolving the ego and embracing Love of everthing will ease suffering. But I don't know if I need to 'go all the way' into full-god mode. But I can't help myself-I seem to be heading there anyways 

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, JayG84 said:

Can I trust the fact that I "know" intuitively what everyone is talkng about when they speak of Infinity/Oneness/Love/God/Consciousness?

NO!

All your ideas of God/Infinity/Oneness/Love/Awakening are wrong and will always be wrong. It cannot be anything you think it is.

[Forestluv]

34 minutes ago, JayG84 said:

Can I trust the fact that I "know" intuitively what everyone is talkng about when they speak of Infinity/Oneness/Love/God/Consciousness? 

No, because ‘this’ is ‘prior’ to “trusting”. Trust is a dualistic construct you are creating. 

As soon as that “I” tries to take ownership as “I know”, *poof*. . . It ain’t It. 

[JayG84]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

All your ideas of God/Infinity/Oneness/Love/Awakening are wrong and will always be wrong. It cannot be anything you think it is.

That's the thing. I don't feel like I'm just believing the things anyone is telling me. It's an understanding coming from somewhere else. This understanding is guiding me to question everything I am, and everything that I think, even thinking itself, and the notion of Truth. I don't know how to surrender that. That's why I'm here asking these questions. Looking for answers that will help me guide my focus towards what I already "know" is there.

30 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

No, because ‘this’ is ‘prior’ to “trusting”. Trust is a dualistic construct you are creating. 

As soon as that “I” tries to take ownership as “I know”, *poof*. . . It ain’t It.

It doesn't feel like the I (as in the ego) knows it. It feels more like something knows it and it's letting the I know. But that could be more ego masking 

How do you surrender the "I know what Infinity means" to reach the actual thing?

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, JayG84 said:

That's the thing. I don't feel like I'm just believing the things anyone is telling me. It's an understanding coming from somewhere else. This understanding is guiding me to question everything I am, and everything that I think, even thinking itself, and the notion of Truth. I don't know how to surrender that. That's why I'm here asking these questions. Looking for answers that will help me guide my focus towards what I already "know" is there.

You have a very faint intuition that what we talk about here is true. That is necessary and important, but don't confuse that with the Consciousness of it itself.

This is the #1 reason why I keep saying to take psychedelics. They will cut right through the conceptual bullshit that gurus have spent years filling your head with. The psychedelic will show in 30 minutes what would otherwise take you 10 years to understand while lost in all your beliefs about awakening.

Let the psychedelic show you what no words can. You lack the necessary reference experiences, and the only solution to that is to gain those experiences.

[JayG84]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This is the #1 reason why I keep saying to take psychedelics. They will cut right through the conceptual bullshit that gurus have spent years filling your head with.

I've taken mushrooms and felt the connectedness and the Love of everything, and that's sort of where I'm at with day to day life too. I've accepted all of reality, even the "bad" stuff. But I don't think I've ever even come close to Awakening. But I sort of do see the world as some awakened people talk about it I think. I "feel" the egos of everyone around me. I can see the collective ego's dance in society. I feel like an observer of life, and I witness the Impermenance of it all, and I feel the Love in all of it. But I'm just not sure how close awakening is, because as you can tell, I just talked about myself a lot here. Maybe people who are truely awakened aren't thinking about what they are like. And just be it. Right?

[JayG84]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The psychedelic will show in 30 minutes what would otherwise take you 10 years to understand while lost in all your beliefs about awakening.

Let the psychedelic show you what no words can. You lack the necessary reference experiences, and the only solution to that is to gain those experiences.

Once more unto the breach?

Edited June 6, 2020 by JayG84

[Kingston]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You have a very faint intuition that what we talk about here is true. That is necessary and important, but don't confuse that with the Consciousness of it itself.

This is the #1 reason why I keep saying to take psychedelics. They will cut right through the conceptual bullshit that gurus have spent years filling your head with. The psychedelic will show in 30 minutes what would otherwise take you 10 years to understand while lost in all your beliefs about awakening.

Let the psychedelic show you what no words can. You lack the necessary reference experiences, and the only solution to that is to gain those experiences.

Fuck, Leo for President 

Your no bullshit words are literally 24k gold
My imaginary Leo is more important than my imaginary mom

 

[Kingston]

9 minutes ago, JayG84 said:

I've taken mushrooms and felt the connectedness and the Love of everything, and that's sort of where I'm at with day to day life too. I've accepted all of reality, even the "bad" stuff. But I don't think I've ever even come close to Awakening. But I sort of do see the world as some awakened people talk about it I think. I "feel" the egos of everyone around me. I can see the collective ego's dance in society. I feel like an observer of life, and I witness the Impermenance of it all, and I feel the Love in all of it. But I'm just not sure how close awakening is, because as you can tell, I just talked about myself a lot here. Maybe people who are truely awakened aren't thinking about what they are like. And just be it. Right?

Bro just keep going deeper with consistency

You’ll find out what you ultimately want

You can’t come close to mastering muscle up just by practicing for 1 month or even 6 months

Trust the process and we’re all here for you when you feel stuck
We’re your friendly imaginary alliances 

[JayG84]

1 minute ago, Kingston said:

Trust the process and we’re all here for you when you feel stuck
We’re your friendly imaginary alliances 

Thanks God ?

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Kingston said:

My imaginary Leo is more important than my imaginary mom

We are one.

[Kingston]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

We are one.

 
Cant wait to find out

[WaveInTheOcean]

This is a beautiful topic with beautiful insights written into words.
This forum can do something Good after all <3  <3

Knowing vs not-knowing is one of the most interesting dualities in life.

Take for example a simple flower out in the woods. You look at it. It's simple. It's beautiful. 
Yet, if you know something about biology/science, you can easily fool yourself into thinking that it's also complex.
And of course you are right: In a sense the flower is immensely complex. But it's just as true to say that the flower is simple.

My point is this: The less you 'know' about something, the more you -- in another sense -- know about that something.

The less I know about the flower, the more I see it for what it is: God. My own doing. God's doing.
And God's doing is effortless. Simple.

The more I know about the flower, the less I see it for what it is, and instead I see it as a separate thing/concept.
Separate things/concepts are indeed complex. 

But Truly there exist no things in actual reality!
Only God's/Your Eternal Happening exist!

Let me ask you these questions:

- Do you know how you move your legs?
- Do you know how you open your mouth to eat an apple?

In one way: No, you don't. You can't explain to me how you do it in words. You just do it.
In another way: Yes, you do. You just do it! Of course you know!

Now let me ask you these questions:

- Do you know how to grow your hair on your head?
- Do you know how to move your intestines to digest food?
- Do you know how you beat your heart?

In one way: No, you don't. You have zero clue. 
In another way: Yes, you do. You just do it. Like you open your mouth.
 

Quote

(Side-note: Science can explain us how things unfold. Yet they can never explain why they unfold. For example science can say a lot about the brain. How it functions. "How do I open my hand?" I ask.
Scientist: "Oh easy enough brother. You think you want to open your hand, and then an electric impulse from your motor-center in your brain is sent to the hand, and then you open it. That's how it works."

... Me: "Yes, yes. But you didn't actually answer my question. You only told me how it works. But how can I open my hand, can you explain to me how it is possible and how I do it? No you can't, fool. Let me ask you: Who's thinking? Who's perceiving and creating the thoughts "I want to open my hand" ???????? GOD <3 And God can do anything she damn pleases. And she doesn't need to think about it. She just do it <3 ".)

Now let me ask you these last questions:

- Do you know how you make the sun Shine?
- Do you know how you make the flower grow?
- Do you know how you transform sound waves into sound/music?

In one way: No, you don't. You have zero clue.
In another way: Yes, you do. You just do it. Like you open your hand when you want to open your hand.

Do you see how both perspectives simultaneously are equally true?

A: I don't know anything. Nothing is my doing. True.
B: I know everything. Everything is my doing. True.

People who are stuck in logic can't accept this. Haha <3

Taken together, statements A and B collapses into Actual Truth.

Can you hold both perspectives in mind and simultaneously accept & deny both of them? If you can't, you're stuck in illusion/close-mindedness.
If you can, you are very much open-minded and probably attuned to awakening. <3 
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

One thing I'd like to point out is the obvious truth that: What is fundamentally, ultimately & absolutely true cannot ever be spoken of.
This applies to everything. It applies to my prior conceptualizations about 'non-doing' and 'doing', 'not-knowing' and 'knowing. I'm just pointing to the truth there. Nothing else.
We can only ever point to the truth with language. Very, very important to grasp this. We can never 'get there' with language.

For example, on this forum it has become fashionable to say that "all people in your life are just 'your projections' or 'imaginary'."

While I - as God - sympathize and (somewhat) agree with that statement, it is also a dangerous statement that can easily be misunderstood by common people who are not awake.
Just because you believe Leo and trust him when he says that "all people in your awakened life are just 'your projections' or 'imaginary'."  it doesn't mean you *actually understand* what the fuck Leo is saying. 

Any of your/other's ideas in your head is not the full truth. And it can never-ever be so.

To help you understand this, I'd go as far as saying that the opposite statement:
" all people in your life are very real, existing independently of 'your will'. "
is fundamentally just as true(/non-true) as the original statement.

Now, you can ponder what I actually mean by that.
:-) <3  
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

@JayG84

1. "Can I trust the fact that I "know" intuitively what everyone is talkng about when they speak of Infinity/Oneness/Love/God/Consciousness?"

2. "It doesn't feel like the I (as in the ego) knows it. It feels more like something knows it and it's letting the I know. But that could be more ego masking."

3. "I've taken mushrooms and felt the connectedness and the Love of everything, and that's sort of where I'm at with day to day life too. I've accepted all of reality, even the "bad" stuff. But I don't think I've ever even come close to Awakening."

4. "Maybe people who are truely awakened aren't thinking about what they are like. And just be it. Right?"

1. / 2. / 3.:  Both no and yes. Yes, to some degree, because you've already prior had glimpses of Oneness (on your mushroom trip). This has, without any doubt, given you an intuition -- maybe weak and incomplete, but still -- about Truth.

Realize that there fundamentally is no ego. Only You.
If you say the ego is masking, what you actually mean is that you are masking it for yourself (unconsciously), because you don't actually want to 'see it'.

Be careful with being overly self-skeptical and saying things like "I don't think I've ever even come close to Awakening". If you keep repeating that to yourself, I can almost guarantee you that it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy :-) 

To me -- based on what you are writing here -- it seems like you have come somewhat close. If awakening is a lemon, I think you have tasted drops of juice from the lemon already. You just need to put the whole lemon into your mouth :-) You seem very much attuned and ready for the final blessing/gift. Cross the river, dude. Take that psychedelic and let go. Just let go. When you are ready. It will happen by itself of course.

If it's meant to be that you will awaken within this imaginary avatar of yours, then you -- in a sense -- don't have to do anything about it. It will happen all by itself when you're ripe.

It's good to be skeptical and critical of one's own mind. But not too much. What you are seeking for is yourself after all, absolutely speaking.
I'm talking about your actual true self (we can't put a name on it), not your false self (person-body-mind-ego). :-)

Awakening is such an obvious thing (when you finally get the full lemon in your mouth.). It's what is right in front of you. It's yourself. 
Yet it is difficult to grasp, because how can a mouth eat itself?

In order to finally wake up, it's quite obvious that the seeking has to stop, simultaneously.
What you seek is seeking you.

4.  Yes, I believe so too. I believe there are many people around the globe who in some degree are awake, but who don't go around talking explicitly about it. Instead they do it implicitly through art or some other means. Hell, it's not just that they don't directly talk about it, it's also that they just don't have the words for it - for what they feel.

@Leo Gura and I are two imaginary persons who do have the words for it. I see myself so, so, so much in him cos' our minds work pretty much the same way. When I woke up during my 40 mg 2CB-trip on Whitsunday, I felt like Jesus reborn. But I also felt a bit like Leo Gura waking up in a new imaginary body-mind, mine  <3 It felt like making love to him. There were also "hints" of insight during the peak/come-down that I had now become even more enlightened than Leo. But who knows.  <3 Haha =D

But for instance, we have zero clue how to make music about it.
But take Jon Hopkins. He is a dude who doesn't go around saying "I'm God and everything is God". He is instead a genius-musician. 

 And yes, that star constellation on the sky in the music video is the molecule that Leo has said is currently his go-to-psychedelic :-)

Much love <3

[WaveInTheOcean]

 I'm literally crying.

It's all so beautiful. 

[Nahm]

16 hours ago, JayG84 said:

I can see and feel people's egos as well as I see my own. I've seen the tricks it plays. I've worked through a lot of "programming" intellectually. And have a long way to go still. I'm not enlightened, and I'm kind of scared to see the Truth to be honest. 

You’re lying to yourself about there being ego’s, programming, having a long way to go, not being “enlightened”, being scared, being honest. All lies. It’s a narrative weaved of pretending individualized thoughts are cohesive.  Notice the untruth of the story weighs on you such that you express it first to ‘get it off your shoulders’, or ‘get it out of the way’, so you can then express sincerely, from genuine curiosity. Try to literally point to any actual evidence of any of that, notice it’s nowhere. You’re making it up, and believing & expressing it so quickly, that you’re not noticing you are. 

16 hours ago, JayG84 said:

...this planet is just floating in Space-Time! This must be the Truth!"

Try pointing to “spacetime” also. Notice you can not, because it’s a story you’re literally making up now. 

Don’t take any of this personal, that’d just be more story you’re making up about there being a “you”. 

Just notice you’re making up the greatest story imaginable. 

Just to notice, you’re, making, it, up. 

You are. 

You!