Psychedelics and schizophrenia

[TrustTheProcess]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But take it!

 

[Nak Khid]

So there hasn't been enough research to determine how risky LSD and other psychedelic chemicals for people with schizophrenia in the family

[DrewNows]

@Serotoninluv Have you read any books? Listened to some talks with the author of this one (An amazing journey into the psychotic mind -breaking the spell of the ivory tower), quite fascinating to hear his story, investigation and conclusions from interviews with schizo patients 

[DreamScape]

@Leo Gura hahaha! schizophrenia wont stop me!

[Forestluv]

2 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

@Serotoninluv Have you read any books? Listened to some talks with the author of this one (An amazing journey into the psychotic mind -breaking the spell of the ivory tower), quite fascinating to hear his story, investigation and conclusions from interviews with schizo patients 

Thanks for the recommendation. Looks interesting. 

[JayG84]

24 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I also had a nondual glimpse during my 3rd successful meditation (it made me get up in fear), and I think that was really what changed my baseline frequency of thoughts.

Right on. Did you have the non-dual glimpse by just following the breath? Or was there self-inqiry with it?

[Forestluv]

4 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

So there hasn't been enough research to determine how risky LSD and other psychedelic chemicals for people with schizophrenia in the family

By saying “how risky” you are assuming it is a risk. I’m not aware of any studies showing it is a risk. 

[DreamScape]

Also really listen to your intuition, if you feel like its right for you then knock yourself out. Follow the right protocols about environment, set and setting and make sure youre in a safe place so you can feel grounded and such. If you feel the need for a trip sitter, id get one. For me i didnt listen to this advice and got a little freaked because i got way too in my head. 

[Nak Khid]

4 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

http://www.schizophrenia.com/research/hereditygen.htm

You referred to this website. 
It also says 

Quote

http://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention/cannabis.marijuana.schizophrenia.html

Schizophrenia can sometimes be triggered by heavy use of hallucinogenic drugs, especially LSD; but it appears that one has to have a genetic predisposition towards developing schizophrenia for this to occur. There is also some evidence suggesting that people suffering from schizophrenia but responding to treatment can have an episode as a result of use of LSD. Methamphetamine and PCP also mimic the symptoms of schizophrenia, and can trigger ongoing symptoms of schizophrenia in those who are vulnerable.

they also linked this article

 

Quote

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6870484/?dopt=Abstract

NIH National Library of medicine
Arch Gen Psychiatry

LSD Psychosis or LSD-induced Schizophrenia? A Multimethod Inquiry
M M Vardy, S R Kay
PMID: 6870484
DOI: 10.1001/archpsyc.1983.01790070067008

Abstract

We studied whether patients hospitalized for LSD psychosis are clinically separable from acute schizophrenics. The family histories, manifest symptoms, premorbid adjustment, and profiles on an extensive test battery were analyzed for 52 LSD psychotics and 29 matched first-break schizophrenics. The LSD patients did not differ from schizophrenics in incidence of psychosis or suicide among the parents. However, the rate of parental alcoholism for LSD psychotics far exceeded that for schizophrenics and the general population. The two groups were distinguished on some clinical features but were equivalent in premorbid adjustment, on most cognitive measures when initially hospitalized or reassessed three to five years later, and in number of subsequent rehospitalizations. Thus, in most respects the LSD psychotics were fundamentally similar to schizophrenics in geneaology, phenomenology, and course of illness. The findings supported a model of LSD psychosis as a drug-induced schizophreniform reaction in persons vulnerable to both substance abuse and psychosis.

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Nak Khid

[Carl-Richard]

18 minutes ago, JayG84 said:

Right on. Did you have the non-dual glimpse by just following the breath? Or was there self-inqiry with it?

From what I can remember, there wasn't any single thought that caused the shift in awareness. It was just a gradual sense of my muscles becoming more relaxed, the colours behind my eyelids started to form ocean-like cyan waves, and my sense of hearing became very sharp. It all just culminated in me opening my eyes for no reason and feeling like I was floating about one foot above my head, like I was a hidden camera on the wall behind me, and my visual field was very widened. I was also kind of staring into the grainy texture of the brick wall in above the fireplace, and the particles seemed to be moving, kinda like on LSD, but just very very fine-grained. Then gradually it felt like I was ascending up towards what felt like a higher existence (it distinctly felt like I was looking up at the windows of a church from the inside), which quickly was followed by the recognition that I was about to disappear forever if I didn't stop it, and that is when I stood up and walked out on the porch just staring at the ground in disbelief while my ears were ringing and making ocean-like swishing-noises. Then I sat down and just felt like watching a movie, first A Scanner Darkly (freaked me out, thought I was going insane), and then Arrival.

[JayG84]

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

From what I can remember, there wasn't any single thought that caused the shift in awareness. It was just a gradual sense of my muscles becoming more relaxed, the colours behind my eyelids started to form ocean-like cyan waves, and my sense of hearing became very sharp. It all just culminated in me opening my eyes for no reason and feeling like I was floating about one foot above my head, like I was a hidden camera on the wall behind me, and my visual field was very widened. I was also kind of staring into the grainy texture of the brick wall in above the fireplace, and the particles seemed to be moving, kinda like on LSD, but just very very fine-grained. Then gradually it felt like I was ascending up towards what felt like a higher existence (it distinctly felt like I was looking up at the windows of a church from the inside), which quickly was followed by the recognition that I was about to disappear forever if I didn't stop it, and that is when I stood up and walked out on the porch just staring at the ground in disbelief while my ears were ringing and making ocean-like swishing-noises. Then I sat down and just felt like watching a movie, first A Scanner Darkly (freaked me out, thought I was going insane), and then Arrival.

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing  

[Forestluv]

@Nak Khid The first description states a link, yet they didn’t provide any studies. The abstract to the article did not state a specific link between a family history of schizophrenia and LSD-related schizophrenia. The study doesn’t even include people with LSD-related schizophrenia. 

[Nak Khid]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Nak Khid The first description states a link, yet they didn’t provide any studies. The abstract to the article did not state a specific link between a family history of schizophrenia and LSD-related schizophrenia. The study doesn’t even include people with LSD-related schizophrenia. 

I had the wrong URL but I just went back and corrected it in my previous post 

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6870484/?dopt=Abstract

NIH National Library of medicine
Arch Gen Psychiatry

LSD Psychosis or LSD-induced Schizophrenia? A Multimethod Inquiry
M M Vardy, S R Kay
PMID: 6870484
DOI: 10.1001/archpsyc.1983.01790070067008

[Leo Gura]

Nobody has any valid data or understanding of the relationship between schizophrenia and psychedelics.

None of those statistics or studies can be trusted because they were carried out by materialist fools.

[Nak Khid]

4 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

 Everyone does science everyday without realizing it. Everyone is a scientist. Even a hardcore immaterialist is a scientist. For example: “Based on my sensitivity to mushrooms, I will use a low dose of 25ug of LSD to test my sensitivity. . . (After the trip). I didn’t feel much. Next time, I will bump the dose up to 50ug” <= That is science. 

Science is everywhere. Artists, mechanics, shamans, athletes, Home Depot cashiers - all scientists. Creativity = Science = Art. . . It’s all inter-related. Humans create arbitrary boundaries and categories. These dualities have practical purpose. For example, a school may have a “Science Day”. Yet upon closer inspection, the dualistic boundaries between science vs. non-science break down. 

 

[meow_meow]

5 hours ago, DreamScape said:

Also really listen to your intuition, if you feel like its right for you then knock yourself out.

To be honest - my gut instinct sais no, but I assume it could be related to how I was raised (mentality - Drugs, alcohol = bad).
 

Quote

None of those statistics or studies can be trusted because they were carried out by materialist fools.

I understand that neither those studies, neither this forum can be held as a valid resource.
It will still be my own choice to take them or not, and my own responsibility if I fuck up.

Anyway, thanks everyone who responded and expressed their opinion on this. 

[Leo Gura]

Also, never confuse yourself for a statistic.

[Enlightenment]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

None of those statistics or studies can be trusted because they were carried out by materialist fools.

lol

So basically throw out 99% of studies. You won't say "I don't believe in studies that have proven this substance to bind to opioid receptors and decrease pain" when you are in extreme physical pain and begging for relief.

@meow_meow I don't have any schizophrenia in my family. When I do either sub breakthrough or a breakthrough dose of DPT, after the trip I get some very mild delusions like hearing my mother shouting to me in between the lyrics of the song I'm listening to, or I get the sense my phone was ringing when it was not etc. It's very mild and disappear after 1 day and has only occurred to me on DPT (not 5-MeO).  

Edited June 6, 2020 by Enlightenment

[DreamScape]

@meow_meow possibly. I mean you can think one way, but your body can be telling you something else. Thats what i mean by intuition. Like if you really, really feel into your body, you may be able to feel it.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Enlightenment said:

So basically throw out 99% of studies.

No.

This is a specific situation which requires a very careful understanding of mental disorders, spirituality, consciousness, psychedelics, and reality to run it properly.

There is a big difference between counting beans and making connections between complex spiritual things like psychedelics and schizophrenia. A materialist is qualified to count beans, not complex matters of consciousness.