Psychedelics and schizophrenia

[meow_meow]

So I've been doing enlightenment work for ~2months and meditating almost daily for the past ~7months. (I love to start my topics with my enlightenment stats)

It is at this point that I've considered to maybe try out Psychedelics, this idea is mostly influenced by this forum and Leo's videos even tho I'm fully aware that no mather what it will be my decision to take them or not.

The thing is that I had a relatively close family member - my grandmother, who suffered from serious case of schizophrenia (psychosis, massive paranoia, voices etc) and I've studied articles about how Psychedelics can trigger schizophrenia especially if one has a family history of such illnesses.

So would you guys suggest - should I try them out or no?

[Nak Khid]

do you have any mental health issues? 

[Red-White-Light]

@meow_meow If your family struggle from some extreme mental health problem, don't even consider it.

[Javfly33]

Maybe take a low dose and see how you respond to it. 

[meow_meow]

32 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

do you have any mental health issues? 

No, I don't. I'm prone to anxiety/paranoia on marijuana tho.

Edited June 5, 2020 by meow_meow

[AlwaysBeNice]

Traumatic upbringing is usually the main factor in that kind of thing.

But think about it, most people are paranoid and belief the voice in their head, it's to different degrees.

Psychdelics are quite safe if you don't over do it and already stable, meditating and have some wisdom.

Otherwise more so it can be dangerous for normal folks in terms of a crisis that messes up their life, which was probably already not going the best.

[Forestluv]

@meow_meow Having a grandmother with schizophrenia increases your risk by 4% compared to the general population.

Symptoms often begin during adolescence at 16+ y.o. If you haven’t had any symptoms, your risk is lower.

I would start off with a lowish dose (around 50ug LSD) in a familiar, peaceful environment. 

[Leo Gura]

@meow_meow Take 1 gram of mushrooms or a few puffs of DMT. You'll be fine.

You will only get in trouble when your doses are too high.

[Nak Khid]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

@meow_meow Having a grandmother with schizophrenia increases your risk by 4% compared to the general population.

 

do you have a source for this?

[Forestluv]

15 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

do you have a source for this?

http://www.schizophrenia.com/research/hereditygen.htm

[DreamScape]

Just be careful and take it easy

[Nak Khid]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

Having a grandmother with schizophrenia increases your risk by 4% compared to the general population.

http://www.schizophrenia.com/research/hereditygen.htm

So if having a grandmother with schizophrenia increases one's risk of developing schizophrenia by 4% compared to the general population
what is the percentage of risk that a  person has if taking LSD of triggering a psychosis
if the person has a grandparent who had schizophrenia?

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Nak Khid

[Carl-Richard]

My dad has bipolar 1 disorder and I've taken 100-200 µg LSD 4 times, and I'm still fine 5 years later. However, back when I used to abuse weed and compulsively think about philosophy all the time, I slowly turned into this sort of semi-dysfunctional weirdo where I was a bit stuck inside my own mind, but I didn't really have any true symptoms of psychosis. Then I discovered meditation and my mind became silent

[Forestluv]

2 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

So if having a grandmother with schizophrenia increases one's risk of developing schizophrenia by 4% compared to the general population
what is the percentage of risk that a  person has if taking LSD of triggering a psychosis
if the person has a grandparent who had schizophrenia?

That’s a very good question and something I wish we could estimate. Those studies haven’t been done. 

Schizophrenia is a multifactorial condition with many different inputs. It’s estimated that 30 or so genes contribute to manifesting the condition as well as various environmental inputs. Plus, it is a complex neurological condition involving alterations in various signaling pathways and sometimes improper pruning of neurites. . . No one factor is sufficient to cause the condition, it’s a combination of many factors. And we don’t know for sure if psychedelics are a contributing factor. Yet if they are, I would speculate that the increased risk would be marginal because it’s such a complex condition and there are so many factors involved. 

An analogy might be the stage of a play. Even if the main actor walks on stage, there isn’t a play performed. The main actor is an influential component, yet there are many other things that also need to be assembled first. There is the lighting, there is the sound system, costumes, other actors, ticket collectors, the audience etc. 

[JayG84]

9 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I slowly turned into this sort of semi-dysfunctional weirdo where I was a bit stuck inside my own mind, but I didn't really have any true symptoms of psychosis. Then I discovered meditation and my mind became silent

What type of meditation helped you with that?

 

 

[Nak Khid]

31 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

That’s a very good question and something I wish we could estimate. Those studies haven’t been done. 

Schizophrenia is a multifactorial condition with many different inputs. It’s estimated that 30 or so genes contribute to manifesting the condition as well as various environmental inputs. Plus, it is a complex neurological condition involving alterations in various signaling pathways and sometimes improper pruning of neurites. . . No one factor is sufficient to cause the condition, it’s a combination of many factors. And we don’t know for sure if psychedelics are a contributing factor. Yet if they are, I would speculate that the increased risk would be marginal because it’s such a complex condition and there are so many factors involved. 

 

But there are decades of trip reports an written accounts

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, DreamScape said:

Just be careful and take it easy

But take it!

[Carl-Richard]

@JayG84 I just did some very standard vipassana meditation (following the breath). I also had a nondual glimpse during my 3rd successful meditation (it made me get up in fear), and I think that was really what changed my baseline frequency of thoughts.

[DrewNows]

Rather than fear and avoidance, seek to understand, heres some powerful perspectives on the history of schizophrenia treatment, the bogus interpretations and some new expanded views/understanding. 

Even one gram can be too much, as it was for me. But I can’t say it didn’t loosen my grip on some deep seeded beliefs, it just didn’t happen in the way I would have liked, just how the story goes  

Edited June 6, 2020 by DrewNows

[Forestluv]

18 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

But there are decades of trip reports an written accounts

That’s too loosey-goosey for me. First, because schizophrenia has so many factors, any one factor is going to be very difficult to detect because the effect will likely be small. Previous anectodal reports may give a hint if there is a correlation, yet more formal studies would be needed to investigate deeper. . . . For example, if someone experiences some type of mental instability / depression sometime after tripping it’s very common to blame it on the psychedelic. People look for something unique that happened in their life and attribute causation to it. . . Yet recent clinical studies showed that participants that underwent psychedelic therapy did not have higher instances of mental instability, depression, suicide attempts etc. than the control group that went through traditional therapy without psychedelics. 

The clinical studies are still relatively new and they wanted to be extra cautious about possible risks and screened out anyone with a family history with schizophrenia. 

At this point, I would give more weight to animal studies than anecdotal self-reports and self diagnoses.