Trump Supporters in this Forum

[TrustTheProcess]

7 minutes ago, Dutch guy said:

@Extreme Z7  Nope this study is done way better than the studys the media went with. The lancet study was pure fraud! Such big fraud should be expected when it has something to do with Trump. Then suddenly everything becomes possible. Other studies that found nothing were very dumb. For example giving it in a late phase. These angry democrats that do this, can't they see that in time it will be exposed? Again and again and again and again.

You can pick a single study(or video or article) that can "prove" just about anything. It is valuable to look at the big picture of data and critically assess from that standpoint... Cherry picking studies(or videos/articles) that reaffirms ones worldview and simply dismissing those that are against ones world view as fake news without any serious thought is not very helpful. 

Edited June 6, 2020 by louhad

[Extreme Z7]

@Dutch guy  You have such stubborn certainty with your worldview. Reality will punish you for it somewhere down the line.

You have yet to experience the shock of knowing just how little you actually know.

[Forestluv]

19 minutes ago, Dutch guy said:

@Serotoninluv You clearly took that out of context. Of-course he doesnt want somebody to drink it.

No, I used it in context. He speculated we should look into ingesting disinfectant to kill the coronavirus. He stood by his remarks and White House personnel defended his remarks. Two days later he realized how idiotic he looked and said “I was just joking” to save face., He obviously wasn’t joking.

19 minutes ago, Dutch guy said:

. Don't fall for media trickery.

I don’t. I listen to and watch the original statements out of Trump’s mouth in full context.

19 minutes ago, Dutch guy said:

You name some other examples. Probably him thinking openly, but nothing for real policy. 

1. This considerations themselves are idiocy. If you are setting the bar at policy, that is a VERY low bar.

2. Several of the idiotic ideas he pushed advisors to actually work on. For example, he pushed advisors into looking into buying Greenland and getting cost estimates on building a moat with snakes and alligators around the wall.

19 minutes ago, Dutch guy said:

He is clearly a clever guy.

Very gullible and easily manipulated. . . Notice how you have to twist yourself into all sorts of pretzels to protect your admiration and identity with Trump. “Well. . . Trump probably meant this.”, “No, they are all after Trump”, “Trump was just joking” and on and on and on . . . 

Would you like to attend Trump University? Lol

[TrustTheProcess]

6 minutes ago, Dutch guy said:

@Itsokimok  If you really want to understand it. 7 minutes is all it takes:

 

Interesting perspective. 

Can I ask what got you into spirituality/non-duality?

[TrustTheProcess]

3 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

getting cost estimates on building a moat with snakes and alligators around the wall.

 

Lol, I didn't hear that one

Edited June 6, 2020 by louhad

[Consept]

@Dutch guy How old are you mate? genuine question

[Consept]

2 minutes ago, louhad said:

Lol, I didn't hear that one

 I forgot about the greenland thing 

Just for jokes - 

 

[Forestluv]

1 minute ago, Dutch guy said:

Nope he clearly meant getting the chemical somehow to in the body to kill the virus and then saying I don't know how I am not a dokter. Has nothing to do with policy.

He literally said injecting disinfectant into the body. It doesn’t matter the “somehow”. Drinking it, injecting it or plugging it up the ass. Introducing disinfectant into the body (by any means) is lunacy.

And it doesn’t matter if it’s policy or not. 

3 minutes ago, Dutch guy said:

Nope he clearly meant getting the chemical somehow to in the body to kill the virus and then saying I don't know how I am not a dokter. Has nothing to do with policy. It's just a bit of lose thinking. Don't mind him doing that. Its the media being dishonest and making something out of it. I am suprised you dont see the pattern, media blowing nothing burgers up. It's fried air nothing more.

This has nothing to do with your distrust of the media. Trump himself is a baboon. He is not intelligent. He himself brags about never reading books and knowing more than experts. That has nothing to do with the media.

[Forestluv]

6 minutes ago, Dutch guy said:

 

Exactly then you could see it was a nothing burger. Again.

The claim is not about policy, scandal or corruption. It is about idiocy. It has nothing to do with “nothing burger”

Trump has refused to exercise during his life because he believes that the human heart has a finite number of heart beats and exercising will use up those heartbeats faster. <= That is idiocy. It has nothing to do with policy, scandals, corruption, media manipulation. That is an idiotic belief that he holds. 

At this point, I don’t know if you are trolling for entertainment. I hope you are laughing your ass off as you string us along on a troll. I hope you are not serious about what you are writing. 

[TrustTheProcess]

@Dutch guy I mean, there was def a fair share of corporate influence and corruption in the Obama administration... Obama just did not say such cartoonishly silly things all the time the way trump does though. You say it is because Obama is too "calculated". When you are running the most powerful country on Earth, you should prob be calculated and thoughtful about what you say...

Edited June 6, 2020 by louhad

[Preety_India]

 

@Dutch guy  is Trump dutch? Was just wondering. His ethnicity is always a mystery. 

 

[Preety_India]

@Dutch guy then yours must be a very liberal society then! 

 

[Consept]

@Dutch guy Do you think hes an intelligent guy though?

[Leo Gura]

36 minutes ago, Dutch guy said:

@Itsokimok  If you really want to understand it. 7 minutes is all it takes:

 

This is just some libertarian stupidity.

Completely overlooks the achievements of the Civil Rights movement and for that matter, abolition and the Civil War.

By this logic black people would still be slaves.

Organization is crucial when the other side is highly organized. Police have very powerful unions that fight for their survival agenda. As do rich people and white people. The entire Republican party is basically a White Lives Matter and Rich Lives Matter organization. And don't forget all the white supremacist groups which are still going strong.

[Preety_India]

@Leo Gura exactly right! I was wondering the same thing. 

 

[Epikur]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

I know AOC is very vocal about abolishing ICE. I’m not familiar with that quote. I did a quick google search and only saw it on obscure right-wing websites. I don’t know the validity or the context of it.

No. Bernie is a democratic socialist. The classic definition of socialism does not apply.

If you are interested, you can learn more about democratic socialism here: https://www.dsausa.org/about-us/what-is-democratic-socialism/

Yes, support does depend on how the question is phrased.

Support actually goes up when people learn about the costs. M4A is less expensive than the current U.S. system. Out-of-pocket costs would go down for everyone except super rich people. Since most people like paying less money, support goes up when they hear learn about the costs. 

Here is a meta review of M4A costs from the journal PLOS. This is a top-level peer-reviewed journal that analyzed 22 different independent studies by government, businesses and academic researchers. The consensus was that M4A is significantly less expensive.

https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/practices/new-study-says-medicare-for-all-will-save-u-s-money-lower-healthcare-costs

That is not what the 22 studies found. They determined that M4A would be more efficient than the current system in the U.S.

The U.S.. currently has one of the most inefficient health care systems in the developed world, so it’s actually not that hard to make it more efficient. The problem is that there is immense pressure from the health insurance and pharmaceutical  industries to maintain the current system because they are making obscene profits. Yet these obscene profits come at the cost of providing inefficient healthcare and denying people healthcare. 

It boils down to who side are you on. . . Do you think people should have crappy healthcare and be overcharged so billionaire CEOs can buy their third yacht they don’t even use? If so, the current system is awesome. 

You were right with AOC. She didn't say that but it seems that she ment that.
She said, quote form Newsweek: "We have to have respect for children, respect for families, respect for human rights and respect for the right of human mobility. Because it is a right. It is a right. Because we are standing on native land, and Latino people are descendants of native people," Ocasio-Cortez said. "And we cannot be told and criminalized simply for our identity or our status. Period."

For a reasonable person it can easily be interpreted for open borders. If she didn't ment that she could make it clear, could be said.

Regarding Bernie Sanders. Your link is just a random website that might not mean much for a reasonable person. On the other hand when a reasonable person checks Wikipedia he will see that all academics there agree that Bernie Sanders' definition of Democratic Socialism is wrong. So this person would have the opinion that Sanders' is not telling the truth.

Regarding Medicare for all there are a lot of numbers flying around. For a reasonable person 'the hill' might be a good source as they are not much partisan. Their number is 32 billion dollars over 10 years. Roughly the military budget.

A point to USA as a world police: The problematics of policing the world is probably known to  a reasonable person. But again,to say it in the spirit of Nassim Taleb, the author of the black swan: The most important thing is to be prepared for the worst case scenario. In the stock market it would be a total crash. In geopolitics it would be a world war. We had the example with World War 1. One difficult question: which superpower will be more reasonable in the future  the USA or China?






 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Epikur

[Preety_India]

@Dutch guy  well I'm glad to hear that things are progressing in your country with regard to the political situation. 

A one sided system leads to monopoly. Having a party that echoes the voices of people like you is also necessary, am I right?? 

 

 

[Forestluv]

This reminds me of the Phil Hendrie Show. . . Phil Hendrie is a ham radio personality in Los Angeles. He would create these outrageous characters that would “call in” to the show. He could do about 15 different voices, both men and women. He even had two microphones - a quality microphone for him as a host and a crappy microphone that he talked into as the “call in character”. He would create these outrageous stories and about 1% of the listeners thought it was real. In the LA market, 1% was enough for people to call in outraged. He kept stringing the caller along, making the story even more absurd. . . For example, one of his characters was “Jay Santos” who was a self-appointed patrolman of the “citizens auxiliary police“. He had no authority for policing yet thought he was a big shot on this agency he created. “Jay” would tell stories about how he would patrol neighborhoods and give citations to people that misbehaved. In one episode during the summer, “Jay” told stories about how he would go to Walmart and wait in parking lots and write citations to girls that were wearing skirts above their knees as that’s inappropriate. Some people actually believed this guy was real and would call in outraged that he was going to Walmarts writing his pretend citations to girls wearing shorts. One guy got so angry he said he was going to start visiting all the Walmarts in the county and when he finds “Jay” he would kick his ass. . . Phil Hendrie was a master at stringing people along and had about 15 different characters and all sorts of stories.

This reminds me of the Phil Hendrie show. Someone playing an unbelievable character and stringing us along as we believe it’s real. Maybe I’m wrong, yet it’s becoming too absurd to believe it’s real. 

[Consept]

2 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

This reminds me of the Phil Hendrie show. Someone playing an unbelievable character and stringing us along as we believe it’s real. Maybe I’m wrong, yet it’s becoming too absurd to believe it’s real. 

I have actually considered this lol like its just too much that it cant be real, or its for attention or something  

[Forestluv]

22 minutes ago, Epikur said:

Regarding Bernie Sanders. Your link is just a random website that might not mean much for a reasonable person. On the other hand when a reasonable person checks Wikipedia he will see that all academics there agree that Bernie Sanders' definition of Democratic Socialism is wrong. So this person would have the opinion that Sanders' is not telling the truth.

Regarding Medicare for all there are a lot of numbers flying aroung. For a reasonable person 'the hill' might be a good source as they are not much partisan. Their number is 32 billion dollars over 10 years. Roughly the military budget.
 

The website I linked is not a random website. It is the website for the Democratic Socialist political party in the U.S. 

Whether you believe Democratic Socialism is “wrong” is up to you. I believe it is an upgrade from the current U.S. system.

For the M4A, I gave a link above of a meta review of 22 independent studies of M4A costs. The consensus is that M4A is significantly less expensive than the current system.

The trick health insurance and pharmaceutical lobbyists are using is to say that M4A will be too expensive. For example, it will cost $32 billion dollars, the cost of the military budget! That would bankrupt the country!! The part they leave out is the current system is about $34 billion dollars, so it is actually saving $2 billion dollars. . . This is a very straightforward point, yet some people have difficulty with it. . . Imagine going to buy a new car. The cost of the car is $32,000 and the dealership offers you $34,000 trade-in for your old car. It would be silly to say “I can’t afford the car because I don’t have $32,000”, because they dealership is giving you $34,000 for your old car. Not only will you be able to afford it, you are making $2,000!!

This is one of the most effective misinformation tactics used by health care and pharmaceutical lobbyists., I’m not sure why people fall for it. If you don’t understand the above explanation, could you tell me why? That way I can improve my explanation,. Thanks.,