‘Collapse of civilisation is the most likely outcome’: top climate scientists

[Raze]

https://voiceofaction.org/collapse-of-civilisation-is-the-most-likely-outcome-top-climate-scientists/

Quote

Australia’s top climate scientist says “we are already deep into the trajectory towards collapse” of civilisation, which may now be inevitable because 9 of the 15 known global climate tipping points that regulate the state of the planet have been activated.

Australian National University emeritus professor Will Steffen (pictured) told Voice of Action that there was already a chance we have triggered a “global tipping cascade” that would take us to a less habitable “Hothouse Earth” climate, regardless of whether we reduced emissions.

Steffen says it would take 30 years at best (more likely 40-60 years) to transition to net zero emissions, but when it comes to tipping points such as Arctic sea ice we could have already run out of time.

Evidence shows we will also lose control of the tipping points for the Amazon rainforest, the West Antarctic ice sheet, and the Greenland ice sheet in much less time than it’s going to take us to get to net zero emissions, Steffen says.

“Given the momentum in both the Earth and human systems, and the growing difference between the ‘reaction time’ needed to steer humanity towards a more sustainable future, and the ‘intervention time’ left to avert a range of catastrophes in both the physical climate system (e.g., melting of Arctic sea ice) and the biosphere (e.g., loss of the Great Barrier Reef), we are already deep into the trajectory towards collapse,” said Steffen.

“That is, the intervention time we have left has, in many cases, shrunk to levels that are shorter than the time it would take to transition to a more sustainable system.

“The fact that many of the features of the Earth System that are being damaged or lost constitute ‘tipping points’ that could well link to form a ‘tipping cascade’ raises the ultimate question: Have we already lost control of the system? Is collapse now inevitable?”

This is not a unique view – leading Stanford University biologists, who were first to reveal that we are already experiencing the sixth mass extinction on Earth, released new research this week showing species extinctions are accelerating in an unprecedented manner, which may be a tipping point for the collapse of human civilisation.

 

[Leo Gura]

Nonsense.

Civilization will not collapse from a few degrees hotter climate.

Some ecosystems may die, yes. But new ones will emerge.

Scientists lack vision.

[remember]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Nonsense.

Civilization will not collapse from a few degrees hotter climate.

Some ecosystems may die, yes. But new ones will emerge.

might be as well a bail out to procrastinate.

most people lack vision.

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, remember said:

might be as well a bail out to procrastinate.

I am in favor of strong climate change action right now.

But since it won't be happening, we have to deal with it.

Don't forget that the planet has been far hotter in its long history. So there is no way that a few degrees of climate change will kill off life. It will just change which life thrives. Some life thrives in the cold, some in the hot. In fact you could make an argument that life is easier for many lifeforms when the climate is hotter.

Of course for humans it will be very costly to adapt to the changes and many will be dislocated. But that is the natural cost of inaction and improper voting.

[Lyubov]

Bangladesh will basically be submerged and I think civil war and anarchy will break out in developing countries that are greatly affected by climate change. 

[Rilles]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I am in favor of strong climate change action right now.

But since it won't be happening, we have to deal with it.

Don't forget that the planet has been far hotter in its long history. So there is no way that a few degrees of climate change will kill off life. It will just change which life thrives. Some life thrives in the cold, some in the hot. In fact you could make an argument that life is easier for many lifeforms when the climate is hotter.

Of course for humans it will be very costly to adapt to the changes and many will be dislocated. But that is the natural cost of inaction and improper voting.

And what happens when the crops die and the bees die and the weather changes, and Florida becomes the ocean, etc etc. Its not just about "Oooh its sweaty today, lets buy an AC" There are so many unknowns that could happen from this. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Rilles

[remember]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I am in favor of strong climate change action right now.

But since it won't be happening, we have to deal with it.

Don't forget that the planet has been far hotter in its long history. So there is no way that a few degrees of climate change will kill off life. It will just change which life thrives. Some life thrives in the cold, some in the hot. In fact you could make an argument that life is easier for many lifeforms when the climate is hotter.

Of course for humans it will be very costly to adapt to the changes and many will be dislocated. But that is the natural cost of inaction and improper voting.

on an individual level its not preferable to get fear paralyzed over probable changes, but putting it off with: it won’t collapse is an invitation to people to go on with business as usual. in fact it’s better to make change fear driven than not at all, if the changes are sustainable.

how regression and backlashing works, we have probably seen enough.

Edited June 5, 2020 by remember

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Rilles said:

And what happens when the crops die and the bees die and the weather changes, and Florida becomes the ocean, etc etc. Its not just about "Oooh its sweaty today, lets buy an AC" There are so many unknowns that could happen from this. 

New crops will be invented. New ways of pollination will be invented. New land will be made.

Humans are going to terraform this entire planet anyway. So...

At some point we will have the technology to change the climate on the planet to whatever we want it to be.

This era of climate catastrophe will merely be a blimp on the radar screen. In a few hundred years mankind will make the climate great again. And the Earth is robust enough to survive another few hundred years.

6 minutes ago, remember said:

on an individual level its not preferable to get fear paralyzed over probable changes, but putting it off with: it won’t collapse is an invitation to people to go on with business as usual. in fact it’s better to make change fear driven than not at all.

Truth is an inconvenience to survival, I know.

[Rilles]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

make the climate great again

That would make a great Stage Green slogan. 

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Rilles said:

That would make a great Stage Green slogan. 

It's gonna be so great you're gonna be tired of our climate greatness.

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

New crops will be invented. New ways of pollination will be invented. New land will be made.

Humans are going to terraform this entire planet anyway. So...

At some point we will have the technology to change the climate on the planet to whatever we want it to be.

This era of climate catastrophe will merely be a blimp on the radar screen. In a few hundred years mankind will make the climate great again. And the Earth is robust enough to survive another few hundred years.

Truth is an inconvenience to survival, I know.

It isn't that simple. A climate catastrophe would set us back, our technology would not keep advancing like that. You're counting on our technology outpacing the climate, at this rate it is not. You're also forgetting how humans react to things, imagine the amount of violence and nationalism that will be generated from catastrophe's. The majority of humans live near coasts, that means the majority of people will need to relocate. Models show parts of south asia and India will become too hot to be habitable, considering the recent heat waves it isn't improbable. 

[Leo Gura]

@Raze Consider that 85 million people died in WW2 and 30% to 60% of Europe was killed in the Black Death.

I think we can handle a few degrees of higher climate.

Our technology will advance even faster as the pressure will be higher and there will be much demand and money to be made.

Right now green technology is slow because there's no urgent need for it.

Once things get serious we will see a green tech revolution.

[Rilles]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Raze Consider that 85 million people died in WW2 and 30% to 60% of Europe was killed in the Black Death.

I think we can handle a few degrees of higher climate.

Our technology will advance even faster as the pressure will be higher and there will be much demand and money to be made.

Right now green technology is slow because there's no urgent need for it.

Once things get serious we will see a green tech revolution.

Consider that the dinosaurs are not here anymore. 

[Raze]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Raze Consider that 85 million people died in WW2 and 30% to 60% of Europe was killed in the Black Death.

I think we can handle a few degrees of higher climate.

Our technology will advance even faster as the pressure will be higher and there will be much demand and money to be made.

Right now green technology is slow because there's no urgent need for it.

Once things get serious we will see a green tech revolution.

This is a situation where you'd want to act before the pain starts. That's why there is such an emphasis on tipping points, because it is essentially a chain reaction. The chain will have already triggered by the time enough pops off to get everyone on the same page.

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, Rilles said:

Consider that the dinosaurs are not here anymore. 

Dinos weren't as selfish as we are.

14 minutes ago, Raze said:

This is a situation where you'd want to act before the pain starts.

A fool learns no other way but thru pain.

Pain will happen, but mankind knows how to take pain.

[Scholar]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Right now green technology is slow because there's no urgent need for it.

This is relative and the reason why moral progress is paramount. If we had included our brothers and sisters living in nature to be part of our identity, we would have by now felt the urge to take action.

What is lacking is not technology but simply our ability to mobilize action. And our ability to mobilize action is directly linked towards our identities and how evolved they are. What er require is a compelling narrative that will be able to unify us into the voluntary adoption of responsibility for all our brothers and sisters.

 

The fundamental problems of moral nihilism is that it is like throwing out one of the most important tools the Divine has given us to contribute to it's Creation in an effective manner. Notice that after enlightenment Christ was motivated to help people to the degree that he would sacrifice his life for others. What is the difference between him and you?

He has not philosophized himself out of compassion and empathy and justified his inaction with that which ironically fuels all actions.

[Hello from Russia]

WELL, it's cold as fuck here in Russia still, even at a Moscow side of things. I plan to move to somewhere south to have nicer conditions to live but with this climate change it can be that I won't sit there for too long and countries with northern climate such as Netherlands, Scandinavia and so forth will become more pleasant in the future.

So, I"m sort of even looking for that. I am fucking tired of Russian Winters, man

Edited June 5, 2020 by Hello from Russia

[Scholar]

2 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

WELL, it's cold as fuck here in Russia still, even at a Moscow side of things. I plan to move to somewhere south to have nicer conditions to live but with this climate change it can be that I won't sit there for too long and countries with northern climate such as Netherlands, Scandinavia and so forth will become more pleasant in the future.

So, I"m sort of even looking for that. I am fucking tired of Russian Winters, man

I think climate scientists predict that some parts of the world like for example Europe will become far colder due to the distruption of the golf stream, so I would not hold my breath. Dependning on where you live it might become far colder.

It will be the poor people in underdeveloped countries who will feel, and already feel, the greatest impact from climate change.

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Scholar said:

If we had included our brothers and sisters living in nature to be part of our identity, we would have by now felt the urge to take action.

And if your mom had balls she's be your father.

Things are exactly as they must be.

[Hello from Russia]

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Scholar said:

I think climate scientists predict that some parts of the world like for example Europe will become far colder due to the distruption of the golf stream, so I would not hold my breath. Dependning on where you live it might become far colder.

Shit, gonna get out of there asap then

Edited June 5, 2020 by Hello from Russia